Anyone starting IVF? Join me (5)

[waitingimpatient]

I don't think anyone has started the new thread yet? Apologies if so and ignore this one if its already been done

I'm hoping by the end of this thread I'll be waiting and impatient for a new arrival fingers crossed

Glad you are ok shellster and I hope things start happening for you soon! 42 weeks seems a long time to wait fingers crossed you go into labour before then

banana so for the Athens bloods you just request them yourself ? I wonder if I should do this and actually find out for def what immune issues I have as I only know i have anti thyroid antibodies. Do you just ask the GP to draw the blood them send it off yourself? I don't suppose you could pm me all the details ? x

Forgot to add-before my mild IVF last year i didn't really do much preparation apart from trying to put on some weight.
I had in my mind that I was fine, young ish so it would work and amh was high. Clinic were really positive and i thought all was fine. I was taking folic acid and they only recommended a vit d supplement
Then my initial bloods came back with TSH too high and it seemed to go downhill from then
I'm going the combination of supplements I'm on now plus diet change and also dh supplements/diet/giving up alcohol will help

Waiting I'll PM you with the Athens tests info. Brief answer for the benefit of anyone else reading this is yes, getting the tests done is arranged directly with the lab. They give me a letter to use as a referral for getting blood drawn locally, I arrange to get the blood taken where I live, I then ship the blood samples by overnight courier to Athens, and they give me the test results. I still need a Dr to interpret the results and prescribe treatment - but whilst my Dr treats empirically, I would like to understand where any issues might (or might not) lie, and potentially use the tests to be able to see if a higher or lower dose may be required.

Hello friends! Sorry for quiet - I have been having a bit of a break to decompress from my first egg collection / freeze cycle, and to get back focused on my day to day life. I became quit IVF obsessed and I felt it important to get back to work and wedding planning for a few days.

I could not agree more about the impatience. There is nothing I can do now until August except look after myself. Supplements all going well! I have started with just 25mg a day of DHEA to see if I have any revolting reaction so it is easy to stop fast, if fine will increase slowly. I do not want to be a greasy zitty mess for my wedding (2 months away) so if I feel it isn't helping I shall stop it and start immediately after wedding in early June giving me more like 2.5 months before next egg collection. Better than nothing!

I miss you all and still read this like a nutter and learn so much. Have decided to forget about any other tests for now and just go for a really really good fresh cycle and transfer (hopefully!) in August. So I have to wait until then. I fear you will all have left me by then!

Happy weekend to you all!

I'll still be here in August! Doing IVF in June/July and freezing all (fingers crossed) then doing a FET in August too

I'll be here too! Not sure how quickly we'll be able to go again - seeing Dr a week on Monday for our follow up consult after the ERPC.

We will hopefully get some answers from the tissue testing, although I'm scared either way. If it is the more likely reason - ie the baby was chromosomally abnormal - then I really regret the decision not to do PGS even more. We went with the advice we were given but with the benefit of hindsight etc etc

If the baby was chromosomally normal then it means something in my body - which we don't yet know what that could be - rejected a healthy baby. We'll also likely find out whether the baby was a boy or girl

I've gone mental getting tests done so I can take the results in to share with my Dr. He has no idea I've been totally neurotic getting tested left, right and centre, but I feel I really want to leave no stone unturned so we can feel we are covering as many bases as we can when we do our next cycle.

I do feel it's somewhat justified however - I didn't tell him I had got the level 1 immunes and thrombophilia tests done before this cycle, but as those would be the first tests he would have ordered post miscarriage, I at least know it wasn't due to a simple clotting disorder that might have been prevented with a 15p baby aspirin and some Clexane.

He agreed they looked completely normal, so I feel very much vindicated that being thorough may be at worst a waste of money, at best it may uncover something. It's likely he would order many of these tests already (except the level 2 immunes), but being an impatient sort I want to save time (plus I reckon they would more expensive if he ordered them!)

I agree with ALL your testing Banana, I would do the same in your shoes. If I thought I would get anything like your egg collection results I too would push the PGS thing.

I guess I am still naively positive and excited about the whole process, and for some reason feel better about next trying to transfer a couple of embryos that may or may not turn into one or two healthy babies, versus getting a sad 40 year old teeny number of embryos that PGS then indicates are all dud meaning I then need to wait another 3 months or whatever to try again. That would be two cycles with nothing put back in - feel depressed to consider that option.

I am almost sure if I am not pregnant by Christmas I will be reevaluating everything. I now know I definitely want another baby and am committed to this. Staying in touch with you guys keeps me motivated and focused.

Very constipated since starting the Ubiquinol and the DHEA. Which one is the culprit?

Also my first AF since the egg collection would be due next week. Hope it comes on time because I am an irritable cow which seems to be PMT (I don't normally get any PMT). Does IVF makes PMT worse?

Banana do you need or want to know of your baby was a boy or girl? I don't think that is something I would want to know but it may be something that helps you continue to grieving and look towards some sort of closure?

I so feel for you - but I am reading your updates constantly for more learnings and progress. Xx

Makes total sense LH - tbh I don’t know if we will ever be able to replicate the quantities from the last cycle, so if we want to do PGS it may well be we have to do embryo banking over a few fresh cycles, whereby we biopsy whatever (if anything) makes it to blast and freeze them, and do a couple more fresh cycles to try and get to c. 4 blasts to test all at once. We do have our four frosties but I am so scared of miscarrying again that I feel we have to at least give it a go…

I think I probably do want to find out about the baby, for exactly the reasons you set out. We were asked if we wanted to find out the sex from the Panorama test and we said yes. I feel that it wasn’t just a bundle of cells, it was very much my baby - a little baby shaped wriggling little jelly bean. So I feel like I’d already bonded with it, and knowing whether it was our future son or daughter I think may well help to give us some closure xx

Not sure whether I'm an annoying pregnant woman or not still popping in here from time to time, but after I started this thread (or at least the original one several threads ago!), I have gotten to know some of you and of course care about how you are progressing.

banana, my miscarriage was just a few days in, so I can't compare it to where you are at and can't imagine the ongoing process of emotions you have to go through as you get the results of your biopsy and choosing to find out the sex. I do hope for you that it was indeed the suppressive effect of the pill wearing off being the reason for your ovaries producing more follicles as you went on, and that you can indeed replicate the quantities from the last cycle to get on with your plan for PGS rather than dragging out your torture any further over a number of cycles. Oh, and I wrote to you about immunes and then couldn't find where I wrote it to see what you thought! So I shall check the 10+ thread now. But glad it seems from what you write on here that it at least wasn't offensive, even if you have a different plan. It's all easy for me to say when I am no longer going through what you are and I guess I was lucky that I already had DS so for me, I knew that immunes was not an issue.

LH, I've tried to read back through the last few posts, but I am not 100% on how your cycle went. So you got 5 eggs of which only 2 fertilised with IVF rather than ICSI, but what actually happened with those 2?

shell hope bump makes its appearance soon! I am minded to think the DHEA made a massive difference, as well as potentially the effects of the pill (although I used the pill for a month prior to my second cycle and it seemed to prime rather than suppress!)

It is interesting you say immunes could not be an issue as you already had your DS. Women who have already had one child and who then experience secondary infertility as referred to as 'the Olympic team' by Dr Beer when it came to immunes. I know three women who each have little boys who have each had 3-4 miscarriages when trying for a second child. Two of them are finally now staying pregnant having had immunes treatment - it is wonderful to see them both passing the 12 week scan mark after so many losses. It is quite common amongst women with immune issues for it to be triggered after their first pregnancy - so whilst given your male factor issues it is clear there was an obvious cause for your infertility, in many 'unexplained' women experiencing secondary infertility or recurrent miscarriage when trying for a sibling, it's quite often the most severe immune reactions - much more so than women trying for their first. I am very glad for your sake that this wasn't the case for you

(And you know as the mother hen of this thread you are never the annoying pregnant woman!)

LH I take ubiquinol but not dhea and I'm horrendously constipated but it may also be due to my underactive thyroid

You are never annoying shellster and more than ever i think we need you on here not just for your advice but as proof it can work! Fingers crossed your little one is here soon xxx

Oh yes, I forgot that you actually took the pill as part of the protocol before your second cyce so back to you being a mystery woman as to why your ovaries responded well last cycle. I've read studies showing amazing results for women taking DHEA so perhaps you are right and that made the difference. Are you back on the DHEA now? I read your reply in the 10+ thread. I totally agree that perfect looking day 5 blasts have no relevance to their genetic viability. Sounds like you have done your research regarding your decision to take immunes treatment as part of your next cycle. I think if you are confident in your decision that is important - I had many cycles where I wanted to try different things (adding Clomid or Femara to days 2-6 I recall being one of them) but as with all IVF studies, found mixed and contradicting reviews and was always more stressed about whether I should or shouldn't which didn't help my mental state in the lead up! Interesting that you know of 3 women who have had difficulty conceiving a second and that 2 are now pregnant after immunes-glad I didn't hear of their stories when I was going through repeated IVF as it would have been just one more thing for me to research and obsess over!

And obviously the fact that I am here means that still no labor even after my stretch and sweep procedure yesterday. Feels like here is the last place I should be ranting when you lovely ladies are struggling to be pregnant in the first place, but I've been up since 3am and I thought a little rant might get it off my chest so I can get back to sleep. Being medically induced on Friday which is not helping with making me feel pressured for things to happen naturally by the time limit. Just feel frustrated with my body that it didn't go into labor naturally with DS1, then it didn't provide enough breast milk to feed him and I had to give formula, then it struggled to conceive again which even though DH was diagnosed as a factor, I still felt let down by my poor responding ovaries and short light cycles. And now it doesn't know how to go into labor again! Think I might try castor oil today as I am desperate not to be induced again.

Rant away shellster I think I speak for us all when I say that none of us mind and we like having you here

Sorry you are still not having any progress, you never know things may start naturally before Friday, maybe the sweep will still work after all. I don't know what castor oil does but give it a try and maybe a long walk/warm bath etc perhaps that will help get things going
I'm keeping everything crossed for you that it all begins soon !

I have got an appointment on 18 April for a TSH blood test. We are still keeping up with our supplements and healthy eating and I've just had to order some more supplements as we are running out, that made me happy as it means the time is passing and the first month is nearly done.
I'm having reflexology every week and reconsidering if acupuncture may be beneficial and I feel like I need to do absolutely everything possible ! All this planning is keeping me busy/going and all I can think about is the next cycle

Hope everyone else is ok x

Ah shellster definitely rant away. Hope baby shellster gets a move on and that you won’t have to be induced. I know you’ll already be trying every old wives tale and be having sex while eating a curry with raspberry leaf tea, so shan’t make any suggestions other than to wish you lots of luck

My blood is on its way to Athens for the immunes tests, it will give us an idea of where there may be any issues, although it’s mainly for my benefit and peace of mind tbh, as my consultant says tests on peripheral blood are only an indication and don’t necessarily accurately reflect what’s going on in the uterine environment, which is why for implantation failure or m/c he usually prescribes empirically.

It’s really interesting about my friends and their immunes treatment, they’ve all had little boys, and there’s a theory that it’s the male baby that sets off an immune reaction - there’s quite a lot of research that’s been done, and it’s interesting that quite a lot of the women on the miscarriage threads on MN are from women who have young DS but are experiencing successive m/c while trying for a second. My friends all conceive very very quickly naturally, there’s another recurrent miscarriage theory about the ‘unfussy uterus’ i.e. the uterus allows embryos to implant that would otherwise be rejected because they’re not chromosomally right, and they get rejected as miscarriages rather then as BFNs

None of which you need to worry about or obsess over as your DC2 will be with you very shortly!!

And yes I am back on the DHEA. Guzzling the assorted array of supplements I took before: DHEA; CoQ10 as ubiquinol; high dose vitamin D, C & E; resveratrol; melatonin; DHA fish oil; prenatal; selenium and prescription strength folic acid. Phew!

waiting sounds like you are getting match fit, which is brilliant. Good luck for your appointment

I’ve got all my bonkers lot tests done and have most results ready to take to the follow up with the consultant (immunes bloods only went off today, may be back before the weekend, maybe not). I’m concerned about my TSH and whether being within normal range but above 2 which apparently is not good for pregnancy, was likely to have been a factor

Got my infection results back and I tested positive for ureaplasma. Which from what I can tell having consulted Dr Google, seems to be something 40% of the general population have, so I can’t imagine it’s the root cause of any miscarriage, and seems clinics like ARGC and Dr Sher just test and treat for it as belt and braces. If nothing else, maybe it’s why I get recurrent UTIs and a course of antibiotics will knock it on the head

Totally with you on planning - I’ve been going hatstand as you can tell. I just want to know what the next steps are

Oh, and for my body to realise I’m not pregnant! Still getting blazing BFPs. I also still have a bloody pigmented belly stripe. Faint, but definitely there. Which I thought was supposed to be a second / third trimester thing, but apparently it can also be a first trimester and post miscarriage thing as well!

I see the consultant on Monday for my follow up. He said it could take up to 4 weeks for hCG levels to drop, but he’ll scan me and do a blood test to see where we’re at. He did the ERPC, as well as all my IVF, so will see what he has to say and if he needs to go back in there to scrape anything else out.

Absolutely bricking it, as that’s when we’re due to get the results of the genetic testing on the ‘products of conception’ - i.e. which bit was broken, the baby or me? Also trying to mentally prepare ourselves for finding out if it was a boy or a girl, as well as whether it was chromosomally normal and it was my body that killed it (know that’s not a helpful way to talk about it, but that is how I’m feeling right now, Eek)

Right, epic post coming up ladies, strap in!!

Given the blazing BFPs I'm still getting, Dr did a scan this morning and there are no retained products, everything is looking great. We know there was no evidence of a molar pregnancy, so nothing sinister is going on. Had bloods done, so will see where my levels are at on Mon for our follow up.

However, as soon as my hormone levels are back to normal, we are gonna be back in business!

We will get the full results of the tissue testing in my formal follow up on Monday, when DH will be there. It’s my hunch that the consultant knows the problem was chromosomal, as when I said I wanted to do another fresh cycle so we could do PGS, and leave our 4 frosties on the subs bench, he said this was definitely the right choice, and that he was going to suggest it as an option to consider, except I got there first

He seemed very relaxed about other potential issues, which is what makes me think he knows the reason for the m/c was chromosomal

Shared my thyroid results - he said my TSH won’t have made any difference to the miscarriage, but as it was slightly higher than would be optimal, that it would be reasonable to put me on some low dose thyroxine to cover it off

I tested positive for a ureaplasma infection - he said that won’t have made any difference to the m/c, as it’s only a factor in later pregnancy. But it could be why I get so many UTIs, so he’ll give me some antibiotics to knock that on the head.

He said no point in getting karotyping done for DH and I as the solution would be PGS anyway, so it's a moot point.

I told him about getting my level 2 immunes tests done. As I've mentioned before, he generally doesn’t recommend the Chicago tests, as he said levels can bounce up and down, and peripheral blood doesn’t necessarily accurately reflect what’s going on in the ovarian environment.

BUT, he was really impressed when I told him about the Athens tests (especially how inexpensive they were!), and said he was really really interested to see how they came back. I joked about preparing for a bollocking for having got them done, but he said all this testing was great, I'd done lots of his job for him He said it made his job so easier when patients were really focused, so whether he was humouring me or not, he was really lovely about it all.

He said regardless of the immunes results, we will add in immunes to the transfer protocol, and treat with pred / intralipids / clexane / aspirin / progesterone

Good news is, as soon as my hormones are back to normal, we are going to crack on with another fresh cycle ASAP

The plan is to do as many fresh cycles as it takes to get a decent number of blasts to biopsy for PGS

So if we get a decent number of blasts when we next go - awesome. We’ll biopsy them, freeze while we wait for the testing results, and transfer a viable embryo in a FET

If we don’t get enough blasts first time, we will biopsy them, bank them, and do another fresh cycle to get more blasts, and then batch the biopsies from both cycles for PGS testing. And then transfer in a FET as above.

He said it was best to do a hysteroscopy as close to transfer as possible, so we won’t do that till nearer FET cycle time. He can check out the uterine environment and do a scratch while he’s in there.

So. Lots of very very positive news. I am so so so pleased that we don’t have to wait months and months before we can go again. Hopefully my hormones will get a move on - he said once they’re back to normal, no reason we can’t start stims in the next few weeks!!

Phew!!

Oh, and I also asked the Dr what did he think made the difference in my embryo quality between my first and second cycles. He said the DHEA etc could definitely have played a role, but he thought the biggest factor was likely to be my oestrogen levels. My oestrogen levels were low first time round, whereas the cumulative effect of the stims on my ovaries from the first cycle helped to kick things into gear for the second.

He said hormone levels made a big difference to the ovarian environment, and that although the inherent quality of my oocytes was likely to be decent, because I am relatively young in fertility terms, the hormonal environment would def have played a role.

Things should hopefully be even more responsive now, so hopefully my quality won’t be total crap this time around…

Sounds like a great plan banana hopefully you get your results back on Monday and then can go for another cycle Asap. Sounds like it could have been a chromosomal issue from how you describe the doctors reaction to PGS. At least by doing PGS you can avoid the same heartbreaking situation.

I've had a couple of days of doing nothing as keep getting horrendous migraines, I'm feeling drained and exhausted and just horrible :( haven't eaten well either as migraines have made me feel sick and all I could stomach was toast and jam and tea (pretty sure that's not high protein)

hCG levels back from Thursday. 24 days post ERPC and my hCG levels were bloody 420. When we did my first beta at 10dp5dt they were only 299! FFS

Getting it repeated on Monday to see what rate it's (hopefully) decreasing by. Dr said there's nothing sinister going on, as there's no retained products and definitely no molar tissue. Though he was very surprised they were so high. He called me with the results yesterday and said not to worry and we'd sort me out. Don't know if that means there's anything we can do to hurry things along - wonder if Provera could bring on a bleed and try and reset things? No idea!!

It's like Schroedinger's pregnancy. I'm simultaneously both pregnant and not pregnant.

Just. So. Bloody. Fed. Up.

Oh and the genetic testing results aren't back yet, so Monday's appointment has been moved back to Weds. So obv he DIDN'T know the results and we have no idea which was broken - the baby or me.

Another 2 days to shit myself, woo!!

Just. So. Bloody. Fed. Up.

For me that really sums everything up. Obviously different circumstances but I'm starting to wonder when do things actually start to go right, and why are we always waiting? For appts, scans, results :( it's draining

So sorry your appt has been pushed back banana it's only a couple of days but it feels like forever doesn't it
Your hcg levels do seem high but fingers crossed another test will show a decrease and then maybe you can work out how long till they will reach a level when af may return (I'm assuming Natural hcg will be processed in a similar way to ovitrelle and has a half life of something)

I'm having a rubbish day today. I'm cold and tired and had a dream last night about being at DMs house with the most beautiful little baby girl. I woke up early at about 4am all upset as it wasn't real and feel silly as it is it's set me up for the whole day and not in a good way.

Today's just a write off

Oh waiting I want to give you a big hug. I can totally relate to those dreams - it's so cruel. It's not silly at all.

My body is just taunting me. My boobs still look pregnant! Dr sounded v surprised when he called me to tell me the blood results; he said 'don't worry, we'll sort you out' - though not sure how we can un pregnant me any more than we already tried with the ERPC?!

I hope it's exactly like you said, and we'll see the rate of decrease. Wonder if we can give me provera to bring on a bleed? No idea!

Bricking it about the results on Wed. Argh

BTW Dr said although my thyroid was v v unlikely to have been the root cause of the miscarriage, it was reasonable to put me on a low dose of thyroxine to get my TSH into optimal range.

Hope you can do something nice for yourself this weekend xx

Can I pop in and say hi? I had ec on wed and an waiting for et tomorrow. Slightly nervous is an understatement!! We had 12 eggs, 8 fertilised and then the clinic called yesterday and we have 3 good quality embryos and 3 slightly smaller ones. Tomorrow we will be having 2 put back all being well. I know about pineapple core and Brazil nuts, anything else I should be eating / drinking / taking?

Hello tillyann good luck for ET tomorrow! During my 2ww's I just tried to rest as much as I could. I didn't try Brazil nuts as I'm allergic but did eat pineapple !
I went for a few slow walks just to get my circulation going but nothing to strenuous. Neither worked but I'll do the same next time.
I'll keep my fingers crossed for you!

Afternoon everyone. How are you all doing ?? sorry I've not been on for a while been really down since my last cycle didn't work. I am waiting to start another frozen cycle with two embies this time. Fingers crossed its third time lucky.