Anyone starting IVF? Join me (5)

[waitingimpatient]

I don't think anyone has started the new thread yet? Apologies if so and ignore this one if its already been done

I'm hoping by the end of this thread I'll be waiting and impatient for a new arrival fingers crossed

So sorry H2016 I know only too well how horrible it is to get a bfn

Don't rule out your frozen embryos though- what day are they day 3 or5? It may be something to consider when you are feeling a bit better in a few days/weeks doing a FET cycle. I have read lots that seems to point towards frozen cycles having equal/better success rates due to hormone levels being more balanced.

For today though do t even worry about next steps. If you're anything like me you will need a day (or a few) to just eat chocolate and get over the disappointment then start planning where to go from here xx

Just an update from me. Had a really good chat with my consultant who has looked at what happened today, specifically why only 2 eggs out of 5 fertilised (and only one normally). They were surprised by this poor result.

Because I have had two previous natural conceptions they made the assumption that ICSI was not required in my case. As it turns out the sperm did a strange 'circling dance' around the three unfertilised eggs (all of which were fully mature). She said something about stickiness and the sperm not really making the required move. Lab has concluded that I definitely will benefit from ICSI next time.

I feel somewhat reassured by this. At least that is a clear possible fix rather than unexplained poor fertilisation.

Almost certainly not going to do another frozen round and instead plan a fresh cycle with fresh transfer in August. She says I need to stop being obsessed with stock loading the freezer!

Thoughts welcome!

thanks bananafish for info on follicles and not over stimulating, that totally makes sense to me. My clinic decided for whatever reason to prioritise the lining over the follicles and as you say, my lining seemed okay after all so perhaps this has been the wrong decision on their part.....who knows!

They are 5day. I just really thought this time would work. I feel completely heart broken. :(. Someone said that occasionally frozen embies take longer to implant etc so therefore may not show up just yet. Anyone know how true that is ?

I'm not sure as I've had FET cycles and nobody has mentioned that to me specifically in relation to frozen embryos
I have read though that there can be variations in implantation timing but usually within the day 6-10 window

I was the same with my last FET I kept testing hoping that maybe I'd tested too early. It's a very difficult thing to go through. It's good you have some day 5 embryos frozen though as they have the best chance of success and have to be of good quality to freeze so fingers crossed one of them will be your lucky one x

I'm completely devastated. I'm going to carry on the meds till Monday. Take a final test ( even though deep down I know it will be no different ) then arrange to go to the clinic to find out what to try next. I'm hoping they will put two back in next time. Thanks for replying

Big hugs H2016 thinking of you

LHReturns can only imagine how frustrated you must be after hearing that news from the consultant - did they suggest rescue ICSI at any point? I know rescue ICSI has pretty low success rates once the eggs are 24h old, but I believe in certain circumstances it can be better than nothing

I'm so sorry you had to find out about male factor issues this way, and that hopefully next time ICSI plus you with all your mega egg supplements will mean you'll have absolutely stonking fertilisation results

I would definitely go ahead with another stims cycle - I defintely wouldn't do a FET and then another stims cycle, I'd go straight into the fresh - and potentially thaw the frostie at the appropriate time, as if you have 3 good ones at day 3, most labs would recommend going to day 5. If not, then you could bung the two best day 3-ers back as a fresh transfer.

We had my eggs from my first batch frozen unfertilised (long story) and thawed them to fertilise alongside my fresh batch. As you know, it was the right thing to do another stims cycle to get more to work with, rather than rely on the 6 eggs from the first round - as all the original 6 turned out to be duds (3 great at day 3, all fell over and nothing made it to blast). It didn't matter as we had a better batch from the fresh round - if I'd gone all the way through a FET preparation and ended up with nothing to transfer, I'd have been gutted. Or we'd have transferred at day 3 and it'd have been BFN. So sounds like you have a terrific plan!

Hello hope everyone is having a lovely Easter weekend! I may have slipped off the low carb/ high protein wagon today and had quite a bit of chocolate but as dh put it "its only 1 day!" And he's right so back to being ultra healthy tomorrow.

I've not been feeling very well the last few days. Extreme tiredness, freezing cold all the time, miserable and uncomfortable due to awful constipation. I think it is due to my under active thyroid so I'm going to book another blood test as I feel absolutely awful and I don't know what to do with myself. I've been doing well with eating healthily (except today!), taking all my vitamins and supplements, walking daily and getting earlier nights but I feel worse and it's really getting me down. I'm hoping that a repeat TSH may reveal what's going on as I think it's gone up yet again and my levothyroxine will need adjusting.

Ah waiting I'm so sorry you're feeling so rubbish. Def sounds like it's worth getting your thyroid checked out though, I hope if they can tweak your meds you will feel a little better

And definitely think it's obligatory to scoff chocolate on Easter Sunday!!

Decided today needs to be the last day of sitting on my arse moping and feeling sorry for myself (and eating ALL the chocolate, which hasn't been an Easter only super special, rather I've been self medicating post MMC with industrial quantities of chocolate!)

Tomorrow I’m back on the IVF healthy diet bandwagon

And this time I’m going to try and follow an anti-inflammatory diet as much as possible, in case of immunes issues

I’m back on the egg quality supplements, and have ordered another month’s worth of wheatgrass shots for the freezer

I’ve already had all my level 1 immunes and thrombophilia tests

I’ve gone and got my thyroid retested, so I can take the results with me to my post ERPC follow up consult in 2 weeks time

I’ve got my vitamin D and folate retested (as above)

I’m getting tested for mycoplasma and ureaplasma (as above)

I’m going to ask about a hysteroscopy to check out the uterine environment before we put anything else back

I’m going to ask about karotyping for DH and I

I’m going to ask about treating empirically for immunes with prednisolone / intralipids / clexane / aspirin next time

I’m going to ask about doing another fresh cycle with the hope of doing PGS testing

I’m going to ask when is the soonest we can cycle again

I’m going to ask if, while we wait until we can do our next IVF cycle, we can do monitored natural cycle(s) with oestrogen support for my lining, so we can at least be in with a shot of a natural BFP

And I am NOT going to POAS to see if my hCG levels have fallen for at least another week, because I am bloody sick of seeing BFP lines taunting me!!

Wow banana that really is a plan and a magnificent one at that!

Can I ask what is an anti inflammatory diet? I have a feeling it may be of benefit to me. Also what are the benefits of wheatgrass (and what brand do you recommend)
I think you are right about possibly having treatment with clexane/aspirin/steroids/intralipids. I'm interested in intralipids and I'm wondering if it might be something to try but can't see anything about it on creates website and they've never mentioned it.

I'm def going to get TSH retested. I don't feel good at all and it is my thyroid I'm sure.

And I completely understand about the POAS issue.... With my latest cycle I got sick of seeing the post hcg trigger bfp and was willing it to disappear as it really lingered but then obviously I didn't see those two lines again. It's an odd feeling NOT wanting to see a bfp!!!

waiting I was re-reading ‘Is your body baby friendly’ and the chapter about anti inflammatory diet, and remembered that a friend being treated for immunes for recurrent miscarriage (whilst TTC naturally - she gets pregnant very easily, but doesn’t stay pregnant) had been advised to cut out gluten. From what I’ve read an anti inflammatory diet appears to be mostly common sense and much like anything else about eating well whilst TTC.

The only thing that really jumped out at me was the extra importance of omega-3, the cutting out gluten, and eating a higher carb: protein ratio. The latter I’m not sure about TBH, as everything I’ve read about egg quality says higher protein : carb ration (and certainly during stims my Dr recommending eating lots of protein). The study that shellster has mentioned before recommended that protein should make up a minimum of 25% of your daily calories - whilst the anti inflammatory diet seems to suggest no more than 10-15%. I think I am going to selectively ignore the latter point, and try cutting out gluten (I already take omega-3 supplements, but will try and eat more oily fish)

Re: wheatgrass, it’s probably just Internet woowoo, but supposedly it can help lower high FSH (although this seems to be purely anecdotal). I would guess if there is any truth in this, it would be because wheatgrass is a phytoestrogen which may somewhat artificially suppress FSH levels. No idea if it actually does anything, but as I had catastrophically bad FSH, figure I need all the help I can get!!

I buy frozen shots of fresh wheatgrass from Big Juice Ltd - it’s not cheap either, but if you’re going to do this it’s the most convenient way without whizzing up a load of grass cuttings for a vile tasting juice every morning!

Create should be able to issue a prescription for intralipids, which can be administered in your home by a nurse from Healthcare@Home. The price list from my Dr showed an intralipids infusion from H@H was actually cheaper than getting it done at the clinic! Deffo ask them about it

That's interesting, I will have a re read too. I eat very little wheat/gluten so cutting it out altogether would be quite easy and if it helps it seems something easy to do. Like you I'm not sure about the protein issue and I think more protein is the way to go !

I will ask about intralipids as its something else that might help and as it can't really cause any harm I can only see it being a positive addition to everything.
I don't even know what my FSH is ! I don't think it's been tested at create but I'll look at my blood results and check

If you have PCOS your FSH will be low and absolutely nothing to worry about. You deffo don't need an oestrogen to suppress your FSH when you don't make enough of it to ovulate every month

High FSH is what people like me with peri menopausal ovarian reserves have

Deffo ask about intralipids. Dr Sher says for immunes basically steroids + intralipids is the important combo and they're less effective on their own - do report back with what create say (maybe find one of Dr Sher's articles to take with you and see what they have to say. I am an annoying patient like that!!)

I looked at all my bloods and I've not had an fsh test only amh which was high (63.5) but it sounds like I don't need to worry anyway. I had just always heard about wheatgrass being healthy so thought it was worth considering

I will def ask about Intralipids. I think they now expect me and my list of questions each time I have an appt (!) I get the feeling occasionally they may think I'm a bit neurotic but I need to get this right! I had a look at healthcare at home website so do they just come and set up an Iv and stay with you till its done ? Sounds a lot easier than travelling to the clinic

Yep you definitely don't need to worry about FSH with PCOS, I guarantee you. The problem is you're too sensitive to FSH so you have the opposite problem to women with knackered old ovaries like mine

My consultant is used to me coming in with a massive list. He probably sees the notebook come out with pages of notes and thinks 'strap in!!'

I know on the costs list from my Dr it had two prices for intralipids, one for if it was administered at home via H@H, and one for if it was administered at the clinic (more expensive). I got all my meds from H@H, the Dr sent my prescription straight to them and they called me up to arrange payment and delivery. I assume Create could do the same with a script for intralipids?

I'm not sure but I assume they can

I got all my medications there at the clinic as it just seemed so much easier but I wonder if it's cheaper through h@h? Do they have a price list ?

Erm, good question. I'm sure they must do - I had a price list for meds from my Dr which I assume were the prices direct for H@H, but imagine you could contact them and ask for their latest fertility meds prices. I think I paid something like £350 for a 900iu pen of Gonal-F, and a dose of Cetrotide was around £30, off the top of my head.

I know the prices were cheaper than at Care London's pharmacy, and not as cheap as buying at Asda (who sell at cost price) - but like you, as my Dr's secretary sorted it all out it just seemed easier to do that. I'm sure they will be able to give you the info, they supply enough fertility meds nationwide!

My medicines were so expensive last time. They gave us an initial estimate based on our circumstances for meds and bloods it was way off!!! We spent probably double the estimate but at least we know for next time what to expect

Oh no! How frustrating

I ended up needing slightly more Gonal-F so had to buy one more pen on my first cycle, but ended up using exactly the amount of stims on my second, and have a couple of Cetrotide left over which hopefully I can use for our next fresh cycle. So the Dr's estimates of what I'd need seemed to be pretty much bang on, which was lucky

I didn't have any bloods apart from hCG & progesterone when I got my BFP after the second cycle, so the only extra costs were things I knew might be added on if things went well (blastocyst culture and embryo freezing)

Hopefully this time around they will be able to give you a more accurate estimate based on learnings from your first fresh cycle

I'm so eager to get going again and it's really frustrating me today. I know I need 3 months of supplements/healthier eating etc as does dh but it's so frustrating.
I keep having odd dreams where I'm having a cycle (and in last nights I got 53 eggs! I think I'm going mad!)

I need to find something to keep me occupied now till June. I've been going for walks/colouring/tidying and organising a lot but it seems like such a long way away and Iam very impatient

shellster hope you are doing ok? Have you reached your due date yet?

I am going okay thank you waiting. I've been checking in on here but haven't posted too much lately as I feel bad posting about my upcoming labor when you are just dreaming of being in that position (literally, it seems!). Today I am 40 weeks and 5 days, and still no sign of labor. I had to be induced because I didn't go into labor naturally with my son, then I had to supplement him with formula as my body didn't make enough milk to feed him. Then I struggled to conceive a second time, and now it seems my body is not going into labor naturally again. I am a bit frustrated as it just seems my body has no clue on the whole reproductive front. I really don't want to be induced again as I've heard this is much worse pain wise and I don't want drugs during childbirth this time so I can hopefully get breastfeeding off to a good start and be able to experience that part of motherhood that I missed out on last time. So I feel the pressure is on as I will be induced at 42 weeks.

Alas, as I say, I know I can't complain on here as I am one of the lucky ones who got pregnant and at least I am 95% sure that this baby is going to come out okay one way or another, where as when I was going through IVF with failure after failure, I was 95% sure that it would never work for me, which was a much worse predicament to be in. So I come on here and am reminded that I really can't complain, least of all to you lovely ladies. I am going for an appointment with my midwife thisafternoon and she will see if my body is ready enough to do a stretch and sweep procedure to hopefully bring on labor that way. On one hand, I don't want it because I want my body to go into labor by itself when it is 100% ready so that labor is as quick and easy as possible. On the other hand, this procedure is much gentler than the methods they use at 42 weeks to induce me. Will update after my appointment.

I've done the waiting in between cycles thing too and it does drive you absolutely mad. We are in April now so once we get going into this month, then one more month to go and it will be June. What changes are you doing exactly in these 3 glacial slow months that you did not do prior to your first fresh IVF cycle? I personally cannot recommend enough the high protein low carb diet.

Waiting I am totally with you on being impatient to get going. The time till my follow up appt with the consultant is going at absolutely glacial pace, and I just want to get a plan of action for what investigations we are going to do, and know when is the earliest we can cycle again. I am dreading how long he may say we have to wait before we can do our next cycle: we agreed last time (when we both expected the cycle to be BFN and not to get any frosties!) that while I had to wait the 3 months between fresh cycles, that we could do monitored natural cycles to add in oestrogen to support my lining to give us a chance of a natural BFP. In theory, apart from the lining, we are actually technically not infertile yet, insofar as we rushed to IVF so quickly because of my high FSH / low AMH suggestion I was in borderline premature ovarian failure. If I can ovulate a decent egg, and we can support my lining, with DH's olympic swimmers in theory there should be no reason why we might not at least be in with a chance of a natural BFP

To try and at least feel like I am not standing completely still, I have anticipated some of the tests which the Dr will likely order (and some that he won’t) and got onto them myself so that I can bring the results to the consultation with me, and save time that way. If nothing else it’s making me feel like I’m doing something.

Got my thyroid function tested (panel also included Vitamin D, ferritin, folate and CRP), have done a test for ureaplasma and mycoplasma and am awaiting the results, I’m also getting blood drawn for the level 2 immunes NK cytoxicity assay and TH1:TH2 cytokines ration plus immunophenotyping, which a lab in Athens used by the renowned Serum clinic use for all their immunes tests. The assay for NK cells is identical to the Chicago tests, save for they use intralipids instead of IVIG to test the killing power of the NK cells. A woman on FF told me that she had the Athens tests done, and Dr Gorgy accepted them and did not require her to get the Chicago tests done instead, so I figure they must be fairly kosher if they got his approval!

I am dealing directly with the lab, and am just doing the testing to get an indication of where any immunes problems may lie, so that I can share them with my Dr with a view to potentially adjusting the doses of Prednisolone or Clexane when we add in immunes to the protocol for my next transfer cycle. The tests are only 300 euro! Vs the many many hundreds of pounds for the Chicago tests. So for my mind, this is well worth the money! I am dealing with the lab directly and the Dr I am liaising with could not be more helpful if he tried. He even told me to let him know how much I had been quoted for overnight shipping, as depending on the price, he may be able to arrange it more cheaply from his end - what kind of amazing service is that?! I just need to get the blood drawn and to package up the samples securely to be couriered overnight to Athens.

My follow up is not for over a week, and I’m going bonkers with impatience. I am still getting blazing BFPs, and my boobs still haven’t gone down yet, so my body still hasn’t worked out that the baby isn’t there any more So, so frustrating

shellster hope your bubba makes its way out soon! BTW you asked me about PGS and immunes on the TTC 10 months plus thread, I wrote quite a detailed reply which I hope answered your (very pertinent and helpful) questions