Anyone starting IVF? Join me (5)

[waitingimpatient]

I don't think anyone has started the new thread yet? Apologies if so and ignore this one if its already been done

I'm hoping by the end of this thread I'll be waiting and impatient for a new arrival fingers crossed

Yes, what an amazing Dr banana. I think I tried to cope with the tragedies of the IVF process in the same way you and many others on here do. That despite the tears and tribulations, we try to put some logic to what could have gone wrong and correct it for next time. In most cases that is hard to do with infertility when there are so many unknowns. My m/c was the result of a day 3 transfer of a 13 cell embryo and a morula. Both embryos were way ahead for day 3. I had read a study showing that fast growing embryos are less likely to make it to blast but if they do, they are the least likely to be genetically abnormal and most likely to create a viable pregnancy. So when I had hot flushes followed by m/c, I wondered if it was hormonal and added estrogen to the progesterone after my next transfer as a result of reading a study showing it significantly improved pregnancy success rates in poor responders like myself. I could not say conclusively that this was the problem, but it was the best guess I could come up with and thankfully this one took. So although it must be an absolutely horrid process, having 'tissue testing' done on 'products of conception', I am glad for you that there will be some conclusive answers out of all this that will enable you to take logical steps forward. You are so strong to be coming up with a plan B through the depths of despair. But for now, you are allowed to enjoy PJ's and pizza for as long as you need.

LH look forward to hear of you upcoming scan results. Hopefully it puts your mind at ease to see that something is growing despite your lack of symptoms.

waiting, you will have to refresh my memory... do you have any diagnosis that is preventing you from falling pregnant naturally? I know you have the PCOS diagnosis, but then you still ovulate naturally some or most months? Enjoy your walk. You are inspiring me to do the same as I am 39 weeks tomorrow and exercise is one of the wives tales to bring on labor in an effort not to be 2 weeks overdue and induced as I was with my son.

I also have endometriosis and my tubes got completely ruined by an infection (massive) a few years ago so absolutely no chance at all of a natural conception now.

With my pcos ovulation seems to not be a huge issue. My main symptom of it is excess hair and sometimes horrible spots.

You guys have all taught me exactly how I hope to move forward if things don't go well for this particularly egg freezing round for me. I admire you enormously. I love all the detail and I now know what you are all talking about!

At the Lister waiting for my first scan. Really not keen on this waiting room. No one makes eye contact.

Strangely excited even though after four injections I feel pretty much NOTHING. I decided not to start the Cetrotide last night. Hopefully that was the right decision.

Yesterday's delightful diarrhoea has now stopped, but slept terribly last night due to 6 hours time difference. Awake from 3am.

Shall let you know if anything is stirring down there shortly!!

Me again...

So lots has happened - after four Gonal F injections I have 10 follicles which have grown enormously since Monday. They have taken bloods to check my estrogen and LH etc.

I will get a call later today to advise me:

• whether to do one or two Cetrotide tonight
• whether to reduce my Gonal F dose or stay at 450iu
• whether to return tomorrow for scan and bloods again, or come on Monday
• so tomorrow or Monday they will decide whether egg collection will be Tuesday or Wednesday (small chance could even be Monday)

All rather speedy! But I feel good about this and would so welcome any comments or views about the speed of all this.

Anything I should be aware of with this all happening so fast? Grateful for all comments!

I know that speed is a zero indicator of success but I suppose it would put me out of my misery somewhat quicker.

Gonna spend Easter sweating about 3 days, 5 days etc etc!! Do they only freeze 5 day embryos, or can they freeze anything younger?

I had day 2 and day3 embryos frozen (didn't get any day 5 ones). I think they can freeze at any stage up to day 6. I never hear much about day 4 embryos though not sure why?!

Sounds like it's all going well ! Fingers crossed for EC and lots of lovely eggs next week, it's moving fast for you LH

LH that sounds great

You don't want to start Cetrotide until they've seen the follicles and told you they're at the right size to go. Lister are brilliant so they will make sure you start at the right time

Similarly dropping the Gonal-F dose

I was on 450iu until I started Cetrotide because both the dose change and the starting of the blocker were linked to my follicle growth

I actually didn't have a single blood test during either cycle. Was all done off scans. And Dr predicted what my follies would do exactly

Waiting they don't freeze on day 4 as at morula stage they're in an in between stage. They're compacting so it's a kind of limbo day. You want to freeze really at day 5 when something has made it to full blast

You can't tell the quality of the embryo at day 4 as it's compacting. You need to see the quality of the blast so they can be graded. You can grade at day 2, 3 and 5 but not at morula stage as it's an indefinable clump of cells.

Ideally you want to freeze day 5 as they are more advanced and hardier

If you freeze day 3 you have no idea if they would have self selected out by arresting before day 5

Not everything that makes it to day 5 will be a viable embryo

But anything that doesn't make it to day 5 in a dish almost certainly wouldn't have been able to become a person

Waiting to day 5 means you can see the strongest ones

If you only have 1 or 2 then you might as well put back as there is no choice to be made

Although personally I think if it doesn't make it in vitro it wouldn't have made it in utero either so transferring a blast and getting failed implantation gives you more information than transferring day 3 and getting failed implantation

Just my personal opinion

Hello! I hope I'm not too late to the party but I wondered if I could hop onto this thread? We are starting ICSI soon - have been referred, had a chat with consultant and have our appointment to see counsellor on weds (and I think embryologist). Does anyone know if I will start meds after this? We have male factor infertility - low mobility and I am 35 hubby 33. Thanks!

Motility even!

Banana you are brilliant thank you. Indeed I will let you know what I am told to do when I get The Call later today.

Also regarding embryo freezing, that is pretty much what I thought. I totally understand putting a 2 or 3 day embryo back in utero fresh as you can't be sure what will happen. But if they freeze on day 2 or 3 because things aren't looking likely to make it to blastocyst then I can see how one might not feel so very optimistic when the highly anticipated thaw day arrives. Of course this all depends on ones options.

Hard to tell how I will feel until this plays out but if I don't get any really strong day 5 full blasts then instinctively I am pretty sure I will do another full fresh round in the summer (when wedding behind me), do fresh transfer, and freeze anything good left over. I will be 41 in autumn so not keen to spend too much time pursuing channels that have a significantly lower chance of success.

Waiting you were SO right about it being better to have diarrhoea from the stims versus blocked up. Feeling very very very bunged up today - so uncomfortable. Not what I expected - I have no 'period pain' at all, just digestive pain!!

Welcome posey!!! Great to have you join. Maybe I won't be the only novice amateur at all this here now!

Wow I wish I could do a cycle with no bloods! It was £75 a blood test every other day at first then after six or seven days it was daily. Really bumped up the cost and I was so annoyed bloods weren't included in cycle price

And hello posey !

My Dr said he didn't really need bloods. I still got the same kind of personalised protocol telling me what time to take what drug and when to change the dosage - but he went all off follicle growth

Sadly luck of the draw meant our beautiful blast very likely just wasn't meant to become a person. The tissue testing will confirm but that is the most likely reason

But in terms of the actual cycle and no of mature eggs, fertilisation rate and no of embryos that made it to blast, the protocol was bang on despite the lack of blood tests. So I can only assume he knows what he is doing!! Xx

Hello all! Just an update and invitation for any opinions from the pros on here.

Following yesterday's post I got a call from the Lister yesterday evening saying to:

• start with Cetrotide (which I did last night)
• stay with Gonal F 450iu (which I am doing)
• return 'tomorrow' (i.e. today, Saturday) for further bloods - but no scan

So I returned this morning for more bloods to be taken. I saw my blood results that were taken yesterday after 4 days of Gonal F injections. They said:

E: 2207
LH: 2.1
P: 1.8

Endometrial thickness has gone from 3.8mm on Monday to 6.5mm 4 days later. As I am only freezing for this round this doesn't matter for now, but as my periods are short and light it is something I will be thinking about when we do a transfer in the summer. So again, comments welcome.

I am to return to Lister on Monday morning for further bloods and another scan and unless something dramatic has happened I will trigger Monday night for a Wednesday morning EC.

So all seems ok - I just wondered if anyone could tell me what the above blood numbers actually mean for the stage I am at in the process? I really don't have the energy to start googling it and I trust you all far more anyway.

In essence the (fantastic) nurse today said I have responded well, and for my low AMH I should feel positive. She didn't add 'also for your age....' but of course I think about it all the time.

Of the 10 follicles seen in yesterday's scan 6 of them were a decent size (between 11mm and 18mm so far). Again I would appreciate any insight into this. And any of the others maybe could catch up by Wednesday too, maybe or maybe not.

So at least close enough to start counting down the days. Truthfully I am jet lagged, sleeping very badly, constant low level headache, and sitting in a heap watching the rugby. Also not eating well (think Oreos and ice cream). Will get back on the protein wagon tomorrow!

Thank you in advance and happy weekend to you all...

LH I don't know about the bloods because I didn't have any bloods during either of my cycles - but the follie growth sounds terrific! And sounds like Lister are all over it so sounds like you are in terrific hands xx

Oh and anything that was 14mm the day before trigger ended up yielding a mature egg for me both times. So you may well find some of the tiddlers catch up by EC

You are indeed another mystery LH. You comment on your low AMH and your shorter lighter cycles all of which are things that happen as our fertility winds up. But then to have 6 potential eggs is an amazing result. As banana says, I too found that follicles 14mm and bigger had a mature egg, and as the smallest of your 6 were at 11mm on Friday, certainly seems they have the potential to grow to 14mm before Monday night's trigger.

As for the blood results, from what I have read, the important factor of estrogen for egg quality is the rate at which is rises, so it's hard to glean much information from one result alone. Your brain normally releases the LH as it prepares to ovulate, so that seems nice and low and that they have started you on Cetrotide in time before this happens.

LH, are my calculations right in that if EC is on Wednesday, it will be day 10 of your cycle? Look forward to hear of your scan update Monday.

So many thanks both banana and Shellster!

Shellster, indeed, my dates are as follows (I am never sure if ladies on here mean days of menstrual cycle or IVF cycle - sorry!):

• 1st day of period - 12 March
• First Gonal F - 14 March
• Start Cetrotide - 18 March
• expected trigger - 21 March
• expected EC - 23 March
• expected to get quite drunk - 25 March

So EC on 23rd would be day 12 of menstrual cycle and day 10 of IVF 'activity'. I hope that answers your question!

And I really AM getting the sense at the Lister that I am a bit of a mystery. I really do. My consultant will happily exchange emails with me day to night, last night both she and the nurse called me together to discuss next steps. Their tone seems to swing between being quite optimistic and surprised to VERY measured like they don't want me to get excited. Of course my age and AMH are the key factors, but the rest doesn't seem to be quite as depressing.

I know I am new to all this but so far I really am confused....I am aware I have a 'bad' age (old); a 'bad' menstrual cycle (23 days with about 3 days of light bleeding); but then had a pretty good AFC; then had a bad AMH; then had a good first scan; and finally we know I have been successfully pregnant twice - once at 38 and once at 39. It doesn't seem to be exactly textbook. I hate uncertainty!!

So that is why I shared above blood results in detail because so I am constantly trying to swing the balance of variables in my favour.

I entirely understand those bloods are not interesting until there is something to compare them to. I will report back on Monday. Pretty sure I was only pulled back today to re-check my estrogen because yesterday's reading was fairly high and given my short cycle they didn't want to wait until Monday to be absolutely sure there was no risk of 'premature ovulation'. They haven't called me today so I assume all is ok.

I will be sure to come back and bug you with Monday's outcome!

You are all invaluable to my state of mind right now as no one in RL knows I am doing this. My choice for a variety of reasons, so thank you so much for making me feel I have some interested friends.

What is your due date Shellster?

Hi all. I'm new to this thread. Just wanted to know if anyone is currently in the two week wait. I had a fet on March 11th??

Hello H2016! Welcome!!

I am hoping for my first egg collection this coming Wednesday and if we get anything good we will be freezing it. No transfer right now.

Then hoping to do my first FET in the summer. So I would love to know how to is going for you....and what you have learned.

May I ask a few questions?:

• how old are you?
• when and what protocol was followed to collect your current frozen embryos?
• do you have lots frozen and what quality are they?
• if this a medicated FET or non-medicated?

And anything else you feel like sharing to educate me! I would love to know

The others on this thread are absolutely brilliant, very educated about all this, and extremely generous with their help. Especially bananafish, Shellster, and Waitingimpatient.

The very best of luck to you with your 2WW!

Hello H2016 !

Hope everyone else is ok. LH hope you are still feeling ok? Fingers crossed your appt hoes well tomorrow and it's all go for trigger injection. It seems to have gone quickly for you !
I've heard lots of good things about the Lister. After my failed FET recently I started looking at other clinics but we decided to stay where we are for another cycle. Hopefully we won't need any more after the next one but if we do I'm wondering if a change would then be sensible and Lister seems to be v good.

When I had my FET it was a natural cycle but I had a trigger injection both times this was because the opk tests seem v unreliable for me due to PCOS so when the lead follicle was big enough they just triggered me.
I had to fight to be allowed to try natural cycles though-they wanted me to do a medicated one and I was really against it as I get migraines and I was concerned the progynova would cause them to worsen.

Hi :) thank you for replying. I am 32. I was on the long protocol for the fresh cycle egg transferred 11th Dec 15. Had to test Christmas Day. It ended with a chemical pregnancy. I had seven originally ( could not get to my right ovary) five of them fertilised had one transferred and 3 frozen ( one didn't survive). The injections just made me very tired all the time. Unfortunately I started spotting within a day of having the transfer. This time however with the frozen transfer there has been no spotting just cramping. It feels like Af is coming. I really hope not. I have been told it can feel like that if its worked as well so I don't know what to think. I have tested already although I know it's too early. I'm going to try and hold out till Friday to test again. Oh I was told they were good quality. I'm not sure of the grade. I am currently on 3 progesterone pessary's a day as well as 3 oestrogen tablets. So more than the fresh cycle. I'm praying this time is my time to have the baby I have longed to have for such a long time now. Good luck with your egg collection. :)

Did you have a day 3 or day 5 transfer H216?

With my first failed fet I didn't spot but with the most recent one I had spotting. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you it works this time! I tested early too I just couldn't stop myself!