Anyone Starting IVF? Join Me (4)

[bessie84]

The other thread reached 1000 comments, so having to start a new one.

A puff of Babydust to all

x

Thank you blackandwhitecat

I just feel so down today and it doesn't help that financially this is a struggle we had to have a discussion about how much further we can go with all this as so far we have spent about £12 k

Dh wants to try between now and Xmas to see if we can do a natural fet which potentially could be in the region of £3k if none of them work as i don't ovulate every month but we would still have to pay at beginning of each cycle
If none of those work we could try a medicated cycle (again would be about another £1k for that)

If none of my embryos/cycles work out we are then back to square one and would have to either go for mild Ivf and possible fet after that and all the associated costs

It was way over what we were told last time. That was because of all the extra drugs I had to buy mostly as they estimated for 5-9 days of stimms and I needed 14 and nearly daily bloods at £75 a blood test and extra drugs afterwards and all the additional costs :(

Sorry you're having such a tough time waiting, I have an interactive thyroid as well, luckily mine is under control (has been for c.10 years) but I know how hard it can be when it's uncontrolled, you feel awful, emotionally and physically. I hope you get it sorted soon.

Interestingly at my baseline scan I wasn't told how many follicles I had (didn't realise you could see them at that point), just that my lining was nice and thin and my ovaries were inactive as needed. My clinic does seem very sketchy on the details compared to what I read online....

I have a scan Friday morning to see if I'm ready for EC on Monday...desperate to know how many eggs/follies I've got now.

I have had really fucking bad hormonal RAGE today. Everyone and everything has pissed me off today, I'm usually in good control of my emotions at all times at work despite working in a highly stressful environment with very challenging people but I could barely keep a lid on it today then had really bad road rage on the drive home. Not good! Did anyone else have this during stimms? I'm on day 8 today and wasn't expecting this! Also panicked a bit as had a tiny bit of ewcm when I went to the loo earlier so thought I was somehow ovulating despite the buserelin... what a day

Sorry that was sooo long.

Happy Birthday Jessie!

Hi Jessie

Happy birthday! I too am going to be starting short protocol at the start of my next cycle. I have low AMH and a low number of antral follicles - if it makes you feel any better, mine are worse! At the age of 28 my AMH was 28 and I had 42 follicles (polycystic ovaries) - now 5 years later at 33, my AMH is 1.5 and I have a measly 5 follicles! I was devastated when I found out It sounds like we have both had a similar shock with such a rapid change, so I have much sympathy and know how you feel

I was told that with diminished reserves I was being treated as a low responder, and that short protocol was recommended over long protocol, as there’s a risk when quieting down the ovaries when down-regging that sleepy ovaries like mine might not wake up properly - so that’s why we go straight into stimming. I’m also going to be on Gonal-F and Cetrotide.

Big hugs xx

black I missed your post earlier. I'm knitting squares atm, I subscribed to that knit and stitch mag last year so I could learn to crochet as I'm already an avid knitter. so far I've done about 2 crochet squares and 100 knitted ones! trying to do one a night atm but they are no more than 50stitches and 66 rows! 200 is a lot of stitches, feels like your getting nowhere when the row counter doesn't move far each night doesn't it!

jessie, if it's any reassurance, I too have low AMH (2.5 at last check). I did 7 egg collections and after the first few IVF's were a disaster and I discovered that I only make 3-4 mature eggs each IVF, I read articles that focused on quality over quantity. One study that gave me hope was the one about diet and showed that eating a diet of less than 40% carbs and greater than 25% protein increased number of embryos that survived to blastocyst to 50% and increased preg rate to 80%. It was very cumbersome, but I kept track of everything I ate on the Calorie King website and made sure my protein/carbs were in the right percentages. My last IVF produced only 3 mature eggs of which only 2 fertilised. But due to this diet, they were both alive and well at day 3 when I was scheduled for transfer and one took! They say the diet should be done for 2 months prior to IVF as this is when the eggs for the IVF cycle are starting to grow, but better late than never if you want to give it a try.

You are more than welcome to rant away here icsi - that's what this is for! I didn't have those feelings you describe while on stimms, but after I had 11 IVF attempts, I was probably just depressed and irritated all the time so the stims made no change!

I too am a bit of a knitter lil. Are the squares all getting joined together to make something? It's a nice way to keep the mind mentally distracted at night while going through IVF. I'm currently knitting a hooded jacket for my 4 y.o. - which also is no where near as big as cats 200 stitches!

that sounds so cute shell. the squares make a king size throw, 4 small cushions, a larger cushion and a floor pillow. there's a lot of squares!

Good luck Vixx with beginning this whole process. Has it taken a long time to get this far?

Shell, I know you are super keen on the high protein low carb diet but can I ask what the evidence is? The only thing I have found is a report of poster presentation at a conference, I think this is the work you are talking about here. Was this ever written up properly do you know? I am of a cynical nature and think that if it was never properly peer-reviewed perhaps the research is not that great.

waiting, I'm sorry you've not had good news. I don't know much about TSH but fingers crossed for you for the next attempt. Don't feel bad about feeling bad, if you know what I mean. You can't help it. I'm sorry this is costing you so much, it must be very stressful.

Icsi (cool name) good luck for your scan tomorrow, don't worry about the RAGE, maybe it's hormones, maybe it's just stress, maybe it's both. Not long to go now.

Jessie sorry you felt down on your birthday - maybe next birthday you'll have a baby or be pregnant though. 6 visible follicles on the first scan doesn't sound too bad.

Everyone else - good luck. And nice one Toes, congratulations and hope all is well. Let's get us all a few more BFPs eh?

I wish I was good at knitting, I always start, and then und up giving up pretty soon after. Maybe is this pregnancy gets to term I'll knit more, I think I just get ants in my pants and want to get up and do other stuff! If I can't, I might actually knit a thing! I actually got quite far crocheting granny squares when we started ttc (5 years ago...!) it was a really good thing to do on the tube, because I could get a couple done during the journey so always felt like I have achieved something.

blackandwhite pretty much as soon as you posted that I started feeling pretty rough and almost threw up. Also we went out for dinner last night, and I am the biggest fan of salted caramel so vas very excited about pudding... Tasted like burn paper to me :( so disappointed.

iscy the rage is normal. My poor DH is so patient with me... But I always try to reassure him when I am not feeling murderous that it's not his fault!

Jessie hope you had a good birthday despite your concerns with the follicles. I've seen lots of ladies come through here with similar stats to you and graduate to the pregnancy boards and beyond, so there's not reaso. You can't be one of them!

shell good to hear from you again, hope you are doing well. I often think of you x

Sorry if I've missed anyone x

Sorry for the typos, can never type on the iPad

not sure of shells sources on protein diet but a quick Google of "high protein ivf paper" comes up with this link

and this

I'm also an advocate of the high protein diet, and my dh was reading last night that theyve just discovered that sperm creates a spikey thing on its head using protein to aid fertilisation. can't find the article or correct terminology but its further support of the role protein plays in fertility.

Ah thanks to lildottie, I have found the write ups of the presentations. One
here where Dr Russell and co asked 12 women with a failed first cycle to increase their protein intake and decrease carbs, and 10/12 (83%) got pregnant afterwards. Impressive success rates but a very very small sample of 12.

Another presentation from the same team here reports a project which got 120 women to complete a three day food diary to record their normal diet before their cycle (not clear if it was their first cycle or not). The group eating higher protein had more eggs make it to blastocyst, and more pregnancies, as did the group eating lower carbohydrate. Of the 36 women who managed both high protein and low carb, 80% got pregnant. Bigger numbers but there doesn't seem to be a full paper. Nothing about whether these high protein low carb women might have been different in other important ways (perhaps they were all younger or did loads of exercise or something)

At the same meeting there was a poster / presentation from Colaci et al here which included 145 women but did not find statistically significant links with protein intake and egg or embryo quality (they did not report pregnancy outcomes)

Generally oral presentations and posters at conferences are not really considered to be super duper high quality evidence (unless they are then later written up as 'proper' papers) but more like interesting findings that may warrant further investigation. I'm not convinced on the basis of these reports that high protein makes enough of a difference, but neither does it look like it does any harm. It would be nice if someone had done a study that recruited a lot of women and asked them to eat more protein, measured this, and compared their outcomes against women who ate their normal diet. That's more relevant to our situation where we want to know what we can do to improve chances.

I might do some more digging around the literature and see what else is out there. I'm keen to have the best chance possible, like we all are, but there are a lot of ideas out there and it's easy to feel bad if you don't do them all - that's why I try to be selective about which ideas to follow!

WAVES*

HOW you feeling shellster ?

im also doing the protein thing...struggle with the carbs, but increased protein, every little helps.

our drug delivery is arrive friday morning, got slightly emotional... its really happening.

hope everyones doing ok. (im pants at individual hellos, but i promise i do read everything)

Jessie just to echo toes wise words - I’m on a cycle buddies thread on Fertility Friends for women with low AMH / high FSH. Including several women with near-undetectable levels of AMH who got their BFPs. Which gives me hope!

Catnip Mouse Thanks SO much for those links. I’m a massive sceptic but also a desperate woman TTC so I’m conflicted by my rational side which wants to see reliable evidence for any claims vs my TTC madwoman side who wants to give ANYTHING a go in the hope that it might work!

icsi the rage is normal. It's the hormones. Good luck with your scan tomorrow

Feel a bit better today. Keep telling myself I'm being sensible waiting another cycle to get TSH down properly rather than rushing trying to get it down for this month.
I'm taking the opportunity of an extra month to fit in extra reflexology and acupuncture and sticking to a healthy diet. Despite already having had egg collection etc I'm still having less carbs and more protein in the hopes that it also helps with my pcos and that eating better will mean I ovulate more often meaning that natural fet will be possible.

I've also managed to keep on my extra weight and am currently still at 9.5 stone. It's been difficult but I'm positive that extra half a stone makes my cycle more regular and makes me feel better although I'm anxious the increase in levothyroxine will make it hard to maintain

Glad to help catnip. I knew it was put there in more detail somewhere bit been a while since I looked at it all properly. I seem to have lost a certain amount of scepticism along with my dignity, both last seen at the door of fertility clinic! since starting ttc and have opted for a few of the "can't hurt" aids. So far I've done the high protein low carb diet, vit c zinc and selenium for dh (and his numbers went back to normal by our ivf cycle) co q10, acupuncture, meditation. Hell, I've become a crazy person haven't I! Lol. Have to say though I'm much more laid back this time around. A more "questions Sera sera" approach!

Those on LP. Last time I had spotting on day 1-2 on buserelin and "AF" by day3. Today is day 3 and I've had nothing. Should i be concerned. I'm trying to maintain the "oh well" attitude but I thought I knew what to expect and my body has decided to screw with me!

I had a less rageful day yesterday but thanks everyone for reassuring me its normal!

I am a knitter too, working on some slippers at the mo (adult size!). I love knitting baby stuff but not sure if this is too close to the bone while going through ivf.

I've also (independently of this thread) been eating high protein and (sort of) low carb, but not beating myself up when I'm not perfect.

Dottie my cycles are usually 32ish days and I started buserelin on cd21, AF came at normal time for me and baseline showed everything was good to go so try not to worry!

I'll update later on follicle numbers....fingers crossed!!

Thanks icsi I've been on bcp for 5weeks pre starting buserelin so don't really have a cycle atm. All the waiting is soooo frustrating

icsi I used to knit loads of baby stuff for friends whilst ttc, but had to stop. It was too hard.

cat, I don't find it painful to knit stuff. I a just not sure how I'll feel if this cycle ends in BFN and I am surrounded in baby knitting paraphernalia...

Thanks to everyone for the birthday wishes and encouragement! The high protein thing is interesting but I do feel that if I read too much about things that I am supposed to do then I'll just beat myself up if I can't stick to them. So it's probably a bit late to start that diet now, but maybe I should have researched all this a couple of months ago. I guess if I start now it will stand me in good stead for future cycles, since I am pessimistic that there will be more than one...

Did my first cetrozide today, much more tricky than the gonal f pen; I squirted out a little bit when getting rid of the air and it left a bit of a welt where the needle went in. Was also a bit perturbed to get a frantic voicemail from the clinic nurse on Weds telling me she had made a mistake and told me to start the cetrozide on Thurs when in fact it should be Friday. Crap admin is one thing but surely they need to be more careful about clinical advice? Yes I got the warning in time but how did she realise I wonder?

Meeting friends tonight, not drinking is really boring. Had a sip of DH's beer last night and it tasted like manna. All about the bigger picture though!

Yes dottie the waiting is what I have found hardest...now that we are actually doing something I feel so much better!

Jessie I have been off the booze now for about 7 weeks completely and had cut down a lot before that too. I haven't found it too bad, just a few jealous pangs here and there and today there are a lot of pics on FB on people with fizz etc which are making me pine. Luckily DH has given up for now too as our issue is MF, so alcohol doesn't help!

I had my scan this morning, and they wouldn't tell me exact numbers, but I have around 20 or so follicles, the majority of which are less than 10mm, with just three larger ones ranging from 12-15mm. My menopur dose has been doubled and I am back in for a rescan on Monday, with a view to EC being sometime next week. They reassured me that this is all totally normal and nothing to worry about, I suppose it is just a little frustrating...I am used to getting what I want by working or trying really really hard, and not being able to do that annoys me...also I am very impatient and hate lateness/things going off timetable so IVF is....challenging!!! Also, I am supposed to be on a residential course on the other side of the country the week after next, which now most likely will not be possible as ET will probably be that week, very annoying as it only runs once a year and my boss wanted me to go to help get me promoted...dammit!

Has anyone else experienced similarly slow growing follicles before and had a good outcome? Would love some reassurance right now!