Rumples IVF/ICSI thread continued

[lildottie]

Our thread was originally started by Rumples who now has her bfp, as have a few other ladies along the way. Here's hoping the next thread holds a few more bfps!

lil, just thought I'd update that on the Dr's advice, I've decided to cancel this IVF and try again another cycle. I've spent today an emotional wreck and breaking down cyring. I wasn't doing this last cycle because I had 7 follicles and good estrogen numbers. This time I didn't have either and if my gut was telling me it was going to fail and the Dr suggested cancelling, I've decided to go with logic rather than desperation. This is the last cycle I can afford so I have to get it right. Just hope I get it right soon before I age too much more!

So I am back with you, no closer to an end to this nightmare. And here to support you as you need.

hi shell that's totally understandable, and hopefully you can take steps to get better numbers ready for next time. how annoying you don't get your half hour to be unconscious though! lol

when ur ready we'll formulate a plan of attack together! x

That's so very very sweet of you lil. We'll develop a plan of attack for both of us. When it comes to dishing out BFP's, we are next in queue!

I think I know what I need to do to get better numbers. I stopped DHEA in Nov 14 as I had been taking it for two years and thought I might be overdosing on the stuff. During my IVF's, my follicle count has slowly risen and my embryo quality improved and now that I've stopped it 3 months prior to this IVF, my follicle count has dropped again. I was actually looking for info online about my cyst and stumbled across an article on DHEA proving that it does in fact increase follicle count. So that explains why I didn't have as many follicles this cycle. So I have ordered more online and will start it again as soon as it arrives.

My Dr is back from holidays on Monday as is going to call me next week so at least I will then feel like I have a plan in action and something to count down towards instead of focusing on this misery. Just frustrating that the DHEA takes two months to take effect so it just feels like I am wasting time with my eggs aging while I wait for it's effect.

How are you coping? I guess you never really recover from your experience. It becomes a part of you. Any word yet on your upcoming appointment?

definitely helps to have a goal, which is why I hate waiting for appointment dates! still nothing. I ordered myself a necklace to "mark" the mc and its oddly made me feel a lot better having it.

I'm going to read up on this dhea, I'd never heard of it. does it only help for ivf or can it improve quality for natural conception too?

I'm trying to get back on the diet now, I've been waiting crap since the mc but I'm not dwelling on that or beating myself up about it. I'm trying to just reduce my food and the crap this week then in the next couple of weeks I'll try and remember how I got to 25% protein each day and try and get back onto it. I've been rubbish at taking my vits too so trying to get back onto that this week.

we WILL get our sticky bfps this year!!

I am glad the necklace made you feel a lot better. I will have a think about something symbolic I can do to mark closure of this failed IVF.

This is the article that I just read which is very factual about the studies showing improvements in IVF and convinced me to get back on it. In summary, it says:

• a daily dose of 80mg for 2 months resulted in improved peak E2 levels and number of follicles in the subsequent cycle.
• 25mg 3 times a day for 4 months improved the number of fertilized embryos and their quality.
• DHEA improved the cliical prenancy rate
• A retrospective study showed decreased miscarriage rates with DHEA.
• A recent trial showed significantly higher live birth rates and improved embryo quality in the DHEA supplemented group.

Pretty convincing hey. Of course all the studies are IVF based because women trying naturally are not having their eggs removed before and after DHEA to be able to study.

I will take DHEA for two cycles as per the above information to increase my number of follicles, then try again. I don't have time to grieve because I am turning 38 in July and feel like time is running out. I ate a heap of ice cream today but then I just feel guilty that I am ruining my next IVF. But of course, I know I am trying again in two cycles. You are stuck in limbo waiting for you appointment, which I can imagine must make it harder to feel positive about the future. I've lost track of time and when you expect to get your letter and I don't know how your NHS works, but is there any harm in ringing up and asking them to check the system and see what's happening?

how u feeling shell? still in limbo here waiting to ovulate and for the appointment. I hate limbo land.

Yes, limbo land is frustrating. And unfortunately, that is what most of this journey seems to consist of. Well, I said I would soldier on, exercising and continue eating high protein/low carb. But I have found myself eating chips, ice cream and crap. Just so hard to be motivated when all I get for my efforts is failure after failure. Then I feel guilty for eating bad because I am ruining my next IVF. I need to find some new motivation but I don't know where from. I know I ovulated on Friday after taking the trigger Wed night. We had sex Tue night and Fri morn, but I have no hope of it working even with 3 eggs after it has not worked for 4 years with many more eggs.

shell you are allowed some wallowing time with chips and ice cream. you just have to keep it under control and not let it spiral like I did so pick a date that you are allowed to wallow until and I'll spur you on from there. I did pretty well yesterday for first time in ages, although not enough protein. going to focus on staying within my calories this week though as I need to lose some weight a stone ideally. also need to exercise!

Hi Ladies,

Just wanted to check in on how you were doing. I was so sad to hear your news Shell, but on the other hand it's great that your doctor is on your team so to speak and trying to get you the best outcome possible rather than persisting with this cycle and possibly just taking more money from you while knowing the results aren't as likely to be good as if you waited a little bit.

I know how hard it is getting motivated. I have set myself a target to get my BMI down to under 25 by the time the next cycle rolls round (not before July because of the miscarriage). I had already lost a bit of weight before this cycle, but I have 3 months to loose 6kg (almost a stone). It's not crazy, but I will need to concentrate, which I think will be a good way to take my mind off things. I am using the my fitness pal app, and just logging everything I eat there. It's also great and getting me to now drink, because I'll go to get a beer, then add it to mfp and it says 400 calories, and I think... I'd rather have cake!! I might start the 5:2 diet as well, it worked for me last year, so why not?

The other good thing about my fitness pal is it gives you graphs and pi charts of what proportion of your dieat is what - so it'll say 25% protein 50% carb 25% far for example, so that's really good for making your meals more IVF friendly.

hi toes I use mfp too. trying to get back in the habit of using it tho! I'd be careful of 5:2 diet as I've read in a few places it can have a negative impact on your fertility. when the body is starved the first thing to go are non essential parts and that's usually reproduction first, and 5:2 is a type of starvation diet even though you get 500cals on those fast days.

sounds like the 3 of us might be turning this into an ivf diet thread!

shell do I remember you saying you had protein drinks? if so what brand/how did you have them? I'm thinking I may add one to my diet as I'm struggling to hit my 25%. also going over on my fats so going to ditch the egg yolks in my omelettes.

Err.. yes, the eating is starting to spiral lil. Sounds like you are starting to feel motivated again, eating well on Monday and tracking your carb/protein ratio.

You are amazing too toes, finding the motivation to look forward, eat healthy and lose weight in time for you next cycle. I use (or used to before IVF failure!) a website that sounds similar called Calorie King. It also lists what % of my diet is from fat, protein and carbs.

It is motivating me to jump on board and get myself back on track too. ... Right, just called my IVF Dr. I have been waiting for a call to tell me the next step forward. She is doing surgery today, so receptionist will check with her tomorrow and either Dr or receptionist will call me back tomorrow. Hopefully that will help me feel positive about a future IVF and get my diet back on track instead of the emotional eating I have been doing after last IVF failure.

I have mixed thoughts on the 5:2 diet. It makes sense as you say lil that if you starve yourself, the bodies reaction is to ensure survival and shut down non essential things - including reproduction. On the other hand, I have heard that after a certain amount of time of fasting, the body switches from making new cells to repairing our current cells. I figure our eggs are a cell so perhaps this 'repair stage' is beneficial for our egg quality? Anyway, I find if I try to fast, I just want food all the more and end up caving and pigging out. So instead I decided to stop eating from 7pm to 7am, thinking that 12 hours of fasting every night would give my eggs some repair time mode, without my body going into starvation mode and shutting down reproduction. At least this is what I was doing until IVF failure... getting back on track tomorrow!

Oh and lil, I buy Vital Pea Protein online from ebay. It doesn't contain all numbers and fake sugars like many other protein shakes, but that means it doesn't taste great. So after I add milk, I also add 1/2 banana for better taste. I also add flaxseed for good fats and lately have also added a super greens powder for lots of vitamins and minerals.

I used to use soy milk thinking it was a natural bean based product, but there is so much controversy about soy and fertility. So I switched to organic cows milk. But I have also read contradicting studies about whether dairy is good for fertility. So I am still confused on this point!

shell I can't imagine how you must feel after this latest cycle being cancelled, I struggled going through one cycle and am only committed to one more for so many reasons. but I do know that to have come as far as you have you have amazing strength and character, you just need to remember that, dig deep and get back on track. and you will when you're heart has caught up with your brain!

the tasteless powder sounds like what I'm looking for! I will have a google later. my %s this week so far are about 50% carbs 20% protein 30% fat so not too bad but not the magic combination.

I've also read conflicting things on dairy. I switched to full fat as I used to have skimmed and have 150ml with my breakfast, I eat natural yoghurt as its good for protein and I also eat eggs almost every day. if I didn't have those I think I'd struggle with the protein! I'm not big on beans and pulses although I do try to fit them into evening meals so eggs are my go to protein!

let us know how the phone call goes.

Shell, I read that almonds were a fertility booster, so if you don't have a nut allergy, almond milk is a great alternative. I'm lactose intolerant so never got to have the fertility benefits of switching to full fat milk, but I got some almond milk for making smoothies and it is both yummy and apparently great for me (AND for DH's swimmers).

Also just a quick note to say I finally miscarried last night. Today would have been 10 weeks, but the baby stopped growing over 3 weeks ago so I think I was lucky, it was over in a few hours. I'm glad we knew about the MMC from the scan and the bleeding didn't just start - we'd already come to terms with the loss and this was just physical. I feel like I can get on with the next step of my journey now.

I don't think it is possible to get to 25% protein whilst not exceeding 45g per day like that study we looked at suggests. I'm at 21% today and have had 53g out of a whopping 1119 calories. if I put 45g protein in the mfp goals it tells me to eat 720 calories a day total. feeling annoyed and craving bad things!

Yes the dairy does have conflicting reports lil , but I too have been eating natural yogurt as it has protein without too much carb. Perhaps we read different studies? The one I read did not say to stay under 45 grams per day. That sounds like a protein restriction rather than adding extra protein to the average diet. Is this really what one study suggested? I was having more like 140g of protein on my good days! It's motivating me seeing you get back up and try again. I have started my day with my protein shake and plan to get back on track from today.

Thanks for the tip about the almond milk Toes. I've looked at them previously but they seemed to be only 2.5% almonds, and even contained more sugar than almonds. I'll have another look to see if different brands don't contain the sugar. That sounds horrible going through the physical component of miscarriage. even though you knew ahead and were prepared for it. But you sound amazingly strong and are just viewing it as a step towards moving forward to your FET. You are an inspiration.

I can't remember where I read it now shell, but it was after I knew mc was impending. I'll see if I can find it again

cant find it! I'm sure I'm not making it up! it was something to do with mc. that's going to bug me now!

OK so I've decided to forget the 45g thing, its clearly bullshit! I must have misread something. maybe 45g was min as that's recommended amount for women.

Yes, you obviously read something with the figure 45 to have that number in your head. My last EC produced only 3 mature eggs of which only 2 fertilised. But those 2 both went on to be top quality embryos at my day 3 transfer. I had them both transferred and I am sure I did get pregnant based on physical feeling and my absent period, before having a late very very heavy bleed (I stood up and it gushed onto the floor) compared to my usually very very light period. And I was having protein shakes, quiches, fish, nuts and protein bars along with vegies - heaps of protein and very low carb. So I feel confident in repeating this in the lead up to my next IVF (Whether I have the will power to stick at it is another thing!)

dh wants to have lunch at Costa. I've managed to talk him into healthy lunch here and just a coffee in Costa!

I was looking at different foods last night, putting them into mfp app and have realised that although my natural yoghurt is good protein, Greek yoghurt is soooo much better! will be switching that one! i was a bit bad yesterday buy I usually am on Fridays. must work on that.

My diet went out of the window too last night dottie - I had s glass of wine, and chocolate cake AND ice cream!

Oh well, back to healthy eating today!!

naughty but nice eh toes?!

I wish I had more time so I could trawl the internet for some new recipes

I think in a normal world we are eating very healthily and nothing wrong with being a bit bad just on a Friday or some chocolate and ice cream every now and then. But when you know you've got IVF coming up, you feel guilty if you put the slightest bad thing in your mouth, wanting to eat perfect because we desperately want it to work. My next IVF is 9 weeks away which doesn't seem long in the grand scheme of things to be healthy, but let's see how I go.

So we're all trying to be healthy - what about exercise. I try to walk a bit every now and then but nothing major. Think I really need to step this up. I seem to get cold hands and feet, have very light periods and think if I exercise more, my circulation might be better - including to the all important uterus and ovaries.