Rumples IVF/ICSI thread continued

[lildottie]

Our thread was originally started by Rumples who now has her bfp, as have a few other ladies along the way. Here's hoping the next thread holds a few more bfps!

hi all.

shell next step is to get back to ttc while we wait for follow up appt. I truly don't know how you've done this 9 times, let alone how you can contemplate a tenth. I'm not 100% convinced I want to do it again. I think If I had another funded cycle I definitely would but I hate the thought of spending all that money for it to not work again. but on the other hand I totally get the "next time could be the one" feeling. you are amazingly strong!

phoenix seems odd your going for a scan. I told hospital I'd started bleeding heavily and said I guessed I just stop all meds and they just said yes, said sorry it hasn't worked out, I'd get an appt and that was it. they've been amazing so far but now its like they don't even consider it a mc. I've had zero mc advise.

I'll try and post the updated summary list at some point.

Let us know how you get on Phoenix and mini after your follow up. As you say Phoenix, there is months to all the build up of this and then at the end of it, there's nothing and you just somehow have to forget it and move forward.

lildottie, I have lost track of how things went for you. So many women had success on here and while I am truly happy for them that this sucky journey is over for them, it was depressing for me seeing BFP after BFP and photos of positives. So can you give me a summary of what happened with your IVF if you feel up to it? Last I remember, you had 11 eggs and chose 5 for IVF and 6 for ICSI. That sounds like an amazing result, yet from your last post you sound like you don't have any frozen and would have to do it all again.

Yes 9 times does sound crazy. Although I am a poor responder so 3 of these cycles have been cancelled but I still count them because there is just as much emotional build up to it and disappointment when it doesn't work out, even if things fail earlier in the IVF cycle. But still, even 6 times is crazy. I don't know how I've done it myself. This cycle 10 will definitely be the last as I cannot afford to continue going. So I feel immense pressure on myself this cycle for it to work out. Today is day 16 of my cycle and I start estrogen on day 20 in prep for IVF next cycle. Here we go again...

Hospital called. HCG has doubled to 745 and I have a scan tomorrow afternoon ?? x

that's great news mini.

shell we got 7 fertilised, then only 2 left on day 2. both transferred and bfp 2 days before otd. bfn a week later and hcg blood test only 6. mc started Thursday just gone.

lildottie they scanned me because I had positive tests that were getting stronger and although my bloods were not doubling, they were still going up. It was screaming ectopic but lmy scan today was completely clear. Didn't even show any sign of pregnancy... Gutting really.

I hope this is it for you mini

You must be relieved mini. Nice that they are being thorough and scanning you for extra peace of mind.

Were the 4 that did not fertilise all IVF or ICSI lil? Must have been disheartening have only 2 at day two after getting 7 fertilise. I know you are probably still recovering from the emotional roller coaster of this IVF, but if it's any help to you for future reference, I am doing the high protein (> 25%) low carb (< 40%) diet after reading a study that showed this increased the number of embryos that survived to blastocyst stage to a whopping 50%. My first IVF produced 1 embryo that died before day 2. I then read this study but being vego, I could only increase my protein so much with vegetian options. My next IVF my embryos made it to day 2 but were only 2 cells instead of 4. I then gave up being vego and now chow down fish or chicken daily along with other high protein low carb foods and my last couple of IVF's have shown huge improvement. I remember discussing avocados with you, but not sure if you are aware of this high protein low carb diet study. Just wanted to share in case that gives you a glimmer or hope for the future if you decide to try again. But of course for now, take time out and enjoy a big glass of wine.

Oh Phoenix, I can only imagine how heartbreaking it would be to be there for a scan to show an empty womb when you had been planning to look at a little bean growing. Big glass of wine for you too and sending you a cyber hug.

Phoenix, like I said to lil - I followed half your story then had to take a step back from this thread as it was filled with BFP's and while I am happy for them, it wasn't helpful for me mentally in preparing for my IVF. So I followed half your story up until you had I think 7 follicles growing on one side and 8 on the other, but not sure how things panned out for you after that? Did you end up with frozen embryos again?

phoenix that must have been hard

shell 1 icsi egg was fragmented so no good, one just didn't fertilise, one ivf was egg immature and one just didn't fertilise. I also did the sane high protein diet. think you and I did discuss it a long while back. I was also put on protein drinks by hospital before ec but have since read too much protein can affect implantation. you just can't win! mc seems to be coming to an end so I've started temping again this morning. actually looking forward to being allowed to have sex! its been so long!

Good news. Scan went ok, scanner said she is reasonably confident she can see a sac in the right place (just the one ??) but as it's only about 4.5 weeks it's too early to know more so I have another scan in a week. Thank you for all your support ladies

Must be a relief mini. I can imagine how hard it must be to spot something at 4 1/2 weeks. They are a microscopic dot when they are transferred so they can't grow too much in two weeks. But sounds like good news. Are you happy with just the one or were you wanting both to implant? Like you, I already have DS and only ever planned on 2, but knowing this next IVF is my last, I am wanting 2 for the price of 1 just because I know this can never happen again!

Yes, I remember us discussing the avocados but couldn't remember if we discussed the protein thing lildottie. I am a poor responder so kinda have hope that although I don't produce many eggs, at least this protein diet will make 50% of the few I do get go to blast, as per the study. But now I learn that you only had 2 of 7 alive at day 2 so it makes me worry that perhaps it won't work for me either next cycle when I do IVF again!

I did not realise protein while good for embryos is bad for implantation! Thanks for the tip. So I shall stop the high protein diet after EC.

I don't think you should stop it shell, just make sure you don't exceed 45g protein per day

I got the go ahead today to start our first icsi cycle in April. Feeling a little excited. We are going to be doing short antagonist protocol with 220 fsh so no down regging and only about 10 days of stimms. I don't know a lot about this side of the treatment yet. Has anyone else been on short protocol. How did you find it?

congrats Lucie have you got dates. it feels so much better to gave some definitive timeframe for things.

I agree lil. I remember last time I stopped high protein after EC (not because I knew it was bad for implantation but just because I was so happy to eat other foods finally) and it really caused bowel upset for a few days with the sudden change in diet. So this time I will still keep up my protein shake. When do you have your WTF appointment?

I've done the sort protocol luci. I find the medication and injections all fine. No side effects. For me with a history of failed IVF, it's the emotional turmoil of it all that is the hard part. Hopefully April comes around quick for you.

Thanks shell glad there are no major side effects I imagine the emotional side will be hard though.

I am starting stimms on the second day of af which should be around 7th April. I will then go out to Czech 10 days later for collection and transfer. I'm going all out on this one and having endo scratch, PICSI, ICSI, embryo glue and possibly aCGH!

I have also received my prescription now which is

40 ampoules of Menopur 75 IU
4x Cetrotide
1x Ovitrelle

I need to take 225 units of Menopur from day 2. What is the Ceteotide and Ovitrelle and when do they need to be taken?

Ovitrelle is your trigger injection so should be in the fridge and not used until you are told by your clinic. Were you given a schedule for your medicines?

Thanks mini I'm not starting until April but just like to be prepared! So far they have just told me that I will need to take 225 units of Menopur from day 2 but I want to know what everything is for. I haven't been prescribed any progesterone yet. At what point would I start taking that?

Generally that's started on EC day but your clinic will decide.

I'm on injectable gestone, there are different kinds. I bought our medicines from Asda, def saved money ??

Great I'm going to look into asda as seen a few people mention it. Can you price it up through their website?

I don't think so, but I spoke with the pharmacy direct at my local store and they were very helpful ??

mini everything sounds good, fingers crossed the scan next week is conclusive and you can stop worrying about the bleeding/tummy pains.

lucie the cetrotide stops your body from producing LH, so that you don't end up ovulating. It's the most fiddly of the drugs as it comes as a powder that you have to mix and use two diff needles (one for mixing the drugs and the other to inject). As already mentioned, the ovidrelle is the trigger and should be kept in the fridge until you are told when to take it - it causes the eggs to do their final ripening to make them mature and able to be fertilised. It has to be taken exactly when they tell you to (36hrs before EC I believe).

AFM, My fertility doctor finally called for the debrief. She thinks we still should be able to get pregnant and that it's just a numbers game. At my age she says 25% of blastocysts make it to a successful pregnancy and we've only had 3 attempts so far, so she is leaning towards our issue being the embryo quality rather than implantation (despite testing high for NK cells in the biopsy, so not entirely sure why). She recommends when we do our frozen embryo that I have another intralipid infusion, and take the Clexane after transfer, but reckons another scratch probably isn't worthwhile (yay, not much fun!) and up to me if I want to use the predisolone. Personally she thought not to, but is happy for me to go ahead if I want. I'm in two minds. I partly want to try as natural an attempt as possible, but at the same time i know my family has a history of immune issues and also feel surely at some point I would have had a decent embryo (in all the non IVF attempts too) so surely implantation is an issue?

Anyway, I think we're going to give it a break for a couple of months now to try to let my body get back into the swing of a natural cycle. My first after IVF is always a bit screwy.

I asked her about the bleeding again and she is still unconcerned, given I've had the laparoscopy and she confirmed my progesterone levels were high throughout the 2ww. Possibly the Clexane is making me more prone to bleed plus the pessaries might be irritating my cervix. (I'm not sure i believe this as it feels just like my normal pre menstrual feelings, but it's always nice to be reassured). Maybe she's right on the Clexane.

Hi lucie. Must be nice to have a start date you can count down to. I think the emotional side is just hard for me because I have had so many failures. Hopefully it won't be the case for you. Is this your first IVF? What is the reason for travelling to Czech?

Smidge, I'm losing track. So you've had two IVFs and one FET now? How many frosties do you have? Sounds like a sound idea to give your body time to get back to normal. I have done this between my last IVF and my upcoming IVF next cycle. Sounds like the early bleeding is still causing you concern to be mentioning it to your Dr. If this is what your gut is saying, perhaps you could do some Dr Google research. I know a few others who have had early miscarriages after IVF - one was biopsied and shown to have genetic disorder. So you would think if embryo quality was your issue, at least of your embryos would have at least implanted even if you miscarried early, rather than not even getting a hint of a BFP. How many embryos have you had transferred? Hope I'm not causing you more stress saying this just after you've been reassured by the Dr. But I just think better to try to find the answer for this early bleeding before the heartbreak of another failed attempt. Whatever you decide, I wish you well.

AFM, CD20 here so I am starting estrogen tablets twice daily and doing the slow count down for this cycle to end so I can get started... AGAIN!

smidge iiwy I'd get a second opinion on the bleeding before next cycle. your prog may be high but we all know that prog is not the only hormone in play and if the hormones are out of balance you're at a disadvantage from the get go.

shell can't believe you're into tablets for the next cycle again already. its gone fast, although I'm sure its dragged for you! really truly hoping this is the one for you. you deserve it so much after your determination and all you've been through so far.