Assisted conception after recurrent miscarriage part 5

[Mel3062]

Hope this is right ladies ...

Remind me how you got them down so much?

Prof quenby asked me to stop All medication and vitamins as something had made them go haywire so I did. Trouble is it could of been anything as I was on loads and I'll never know which it was. Going to avoid royal jelly and probiotic now though in case. It will be interesting what she suggests tomorrow though I'm abit worried still about the high tnf alpha as she may say no hydroxy x

That is amazing, Mel, fantastic news. Especially since they were so high I did wonder whether you would be able to reduce them significantly. And it does make you think about all the vitamins we take one on top of the other, whether they are doing more harm than good ...
But why worry about knowing which it was? Surely it is best not to have to take anything? A lot cheaper too!

Thanks brownstag I'm just worried as mr s suggests vits d, fish oil etc. I'm going to stop the aspirin and try what prof quenby suggests I think for a while but I'm wondering if shel let me continue hydroxy for the tnf alpha. Does she still recommend folic acid etc??

Wow that's amazing mel, can't believe it has made such a difference! Will be interesting to see what treatment she advises going forward.

Waiting to hear what prof Q says ?!!

Sorry duggs got day wrong it's tomorrow at 8pm doh!! Then seeing mr gorgy we'd am too, in 2 minds about going but I guess I may as well rule that out and get it done whilst hubby is willing x

I certainly recommend dr Gorgy keep us postedx

Thanks will do x

I'd be interested in what Prof Q says about hydroxy, Mel. If her theory is that in RM the womb is low on natural steroids, rather than needing pred for its immunosuppressant qualities, I wonder if she thinks hydroxy is a waste of time. As that works differently from steroids as far as I know.

... As from today I've decided to limit myself to 5 supplements: multivit, DHEA, coenzyme q10, flax oil, and agnus castus. On the basis that I've been spending money like water on supplements the last 3 years, and have absolutely nothing to show for it. I may go even further and stop some more!

brown You're echoing my exact thoughts, I was thinking about my supplements in the shower this morning (I do most of my productive thinking in the shower!). My only slight hiccup to stopping some of mine is that I emailed my list of supplements to Penny a couple of months or so ago and asked her if she thought these were all ok, she said they're fine and carry on taking them. But like you say, I've spent SO much money on supplements over the last 3.5 years, and nothing to show for it! A couple of mine are supposed to be beneficial to the thyroid (I'm hypo) and of course methylfolate for the MTHFR, but I'd really love to be able to knock some of them on the head, they're just so damn expensive.

mel Very interested indeed to hear what Prof. Q and Dr G. say, do keep us posted :)

Funny enough I have stopped all supplements until next week and then will only take pregnacare, dhea and vitd 3. DH thinks next time I get preg I shouldn't bother with steroids or intrallipids or hydroxy. After the last 3 pregnancies being on it all I do wonder if it helps or not seeing as I have nothing to show. What would you all do at bfp though???

Yes, I'd do everything I did with my DS; so take pred from BFP. I only took a multivit and flax oil when I conceived him, and then I changed flax oil to an algal oil omega 3 capsule on BFP. And went gluten free for the pregnancy.
As for the DHEA, coenzyme q10 and agnus castus, that's all aimed at keeping the whole system going for as long as possible ... I'd like to stop them too, but don't want to be menopausal quite yet.
This will all have to involve no more googling of new research that might lead to the uptake of new supplements.

We'll ladies prof quenby was v relieved!!she doesn't want me taking any suppresents as something has disagreed and that route isn't for me. So shed like me to try again but with just pregnacare, cyclogest twice a day and heperin. Scary stuff but I've not tried just those before!

Onto mr gorgy tomorrow for dqa testing ;)

Apparently vitamins can react with each other too but pregnacare is mild. Does anyone need any vits? I've loads of dhea... You name it I have it!!

Seen mr gorgy £2015! Ouch had repeat nk test, kir, fgi?semen c and s? And Sperm DNA frag? Is this dif to basic sperm test? He mentioned lad. Poor hubby he wasn't prepared for this and I wasn't prepared for the cost! :/

Sperm DNA is sent to Chicago - it looks at fragmentation. It can be a good indicator for recurrent miscarriage. It is £300 and if you only take one of his tests this is the one I would take. ( I am biased as DH had issues that got fixed with strong antibiotics) x

I've had all the above duggs. The sample wasn't done until 1.50 will it still be ok to get sent? What are they looking for? Left dr beer book at home! X

They say DNA is sperm is like a ladder and when there is oxidative damage the rungs are broken. A dye is injected into the sperm and attaches to any broken rungs. It is then passed across a laser beam so a percentage of fragmentation can be assessed. Everyone has some level of fragmentation but 1 precent or less is normal. My DH had 33 percent last May 2012. By sep and medication he was down to 22 percent and by January 2013 down to 15.1 percent. They say there is a 1 percent chance of live birth with a result over 33 percent. So no wonder I was having recurrent miscarriages. But still he is fixed I don't seem to be

Sorry I meant 15 percent is normal !

That's a very graphic way of describing it, Duggs; interesting.
Your poor pocket, Mel! But hopefully something worthwhile will come out of it all.

Some info for vegetarians with RM on this thread:
Remember the University of West London health study I've been part of, looking at homocysteine levels and B12 supplementation in veggies/vegans? Well, my results are in! Homocysteine down from 12 to 7, so down from high to optimum. And I quote their recommendations:

'There is a good reduction in plasma tHcy, which is now at optimum level. However, it is not known at this time whether you were in the vitamin B12 group or the placebo group. This will not be known until the pilot study is finalised and we will be in touch with you again to inform you of this with any further recommendations. It is evident from your diet that you need to consider increasing your supplementation of vitamin B12 and it is recommended that this should be done by the methylcobalamin type. Please note that cyanocobalamin, which is used widely in supplements cannot be absorbed directly by the body nor can it reduce homocysteine because it does not contain a methyl group. The body therefore has to convert it into methylcobalamin, which can take several weeks and can be very inefficient.'

Now quite plainly I was in the treatment group to have had such a result. So while I'm busy getting rid of all my supplements, I might have to add this one!
For anyone who doesn't know, high homocysteine is associated with recurrent miscarriage.

Interesting results brown, thanks for sharing it with us. I've been taking methylcobalamin for a couple of years now and that's one I'm not tempted to give up. Good to hear it had such a positive effect for you.

Sorry things are still not working for you duggs. Mr gorgy went v technical talking about using hubby and doner and I got abit lost. Hubby's upset as it seems like all that time and money with mr s and were having to start again.
It will be interesting to see what my nk cells are doing now though. I think ill just go with prof quenby til results are back. I did say to hubby that these tests are different :/ I take it the nhs sperm test is just count not fragmentation.
Brown v interesting results! Good luck x