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scientists identify genetic causes of autism

450 replies

elportodelgato · 10/06/2010 11:21

story here from the Guardian

lots of people on here already know my views so just opening this up for comment. Does this research change anyone's opinion re: MMR?

OP posts:
OnEdge · 15/06/2010 19:16

I just want to know why you think it IS linked to MMR?

cyberseraphim · 15/06/2010 19:16

If the research is done ethically on children whose parents wish to examine these issues, and no taxpayers' money is involved, then of course more research may go ahead. Who is saying otherwise ?

SanctiMoanyArse · 15/06/2010 19:17

I have worked with people who beleive exorcism cures autism; that it is a punishment for bad behaviour in a former life; that it's a genetic curse shed only by making asd person have a child that is blessed; that it's all to do with aprental neglect

I don't beleive a frigging word of any of it, they are some of the worst cases of bigotry and idiocy I have ever encountered

SanctiMoanyArse · 15/06/2010 19:17

Is that to me or SF onedge? about it being linked to MMR?

SanctiMoanyArse · 15/06/2010 19:19

Cyber OnEdge is saying that we trust the judgement of a quack like that.

Now, SF adn I am not the same person, but what we have both said is we really just want mroe research.

Whetehr we eprsonally regard Wakefield as A B or even T is iirelevant: the constant call for more research gets drowned out by people saying no becuase Wakefield was a quack.

OK say I: disprove him them.

OnEdge · 15/06/2010 19:24

He has been disproved

SanctiMoanyArse · 15/06/2010 19:28

No OnEdge he ahsn't.

It has been proved that MMR has no link with ASD in children generally.

But Wakefield talks about a tiny % of people with ASD; too small to be picked up through mroe general research.

I know some people such as Cyber don't beleive in the subgroup adn that's their choice, I know what DS1 has to live with whetehr related to asd or not; however until thgat very specific pieve of research is done then there will always be a case for people to say 'but that wasn't what he was saying.....'

Get the research done, prove exactly what he was saying isn't true.

DS3 regressed within days of his MMR. I am far from certain that was causal but I would defy anyone in that position not to wonder.

cyberseraphim · 15/06/2010 19:29

How do you disprove an unproven hypthesis ? You cannot disprove sincere belief - You can say that the original hypothesis is unproven but I have no knowledge as how to proceed beyond that point. Again not a question for science however interesting it may be.

Sassybeast · 15/06/2010 19:33

So why isn't anyone stepping up to do this research ? Not one doctor, viroligist, biomed scientist etc has the conviction that Wakefields 'science' is a strong enough basis for further research ? Why is that ? Have they all been got at by the GMC/government conspiracy/Brian Deer/vaccine manufacturers ?

If Wakefields findings are so significant, surely people would be queuing up to blow the GMC et al out of the water ? It's such a high profile issue - am genuinely interested to know why no one has taken it further ?

SanctiMoanyArse · 15/06/2010 19:34

Cyber

I am tlaking about disproving the beleif people have in the research

Surely you relaise that?

SanctiMoanyArse · 15/06/2010 19:36

Sassy the 'sciecne' as you call it is basis for further research IMO purely on the basis of encouraging people to give the MMR should the Government see the results they clearly expcet.

Is that not ewnough? I eman, when people go on these threads Wakefield's effects on the MMR seems to be the main batttle ground, so why not just deal with it straight off?

OnEdge · 15/06/2010 19:36

I still want to know what the responsible people based their decision NOT to vaccinate on.

SanctiMoanyArse · 15/06/2010 19:37

OnEdge I did ask you to be specific as to whom you are asking that Q to?

silverfrog · 15/06/2010 19:39

agree, sancti - if the government are so sure it is all wrong, investigate it thoroughly (and before anyone says it, NO this has not happened)

if they are right, then all well and good- faith inmmr restored.

if they are wrong, then also good, stops more children being damaged.

win-win, really.

onedge. I basedmy decision not ot vaccinate dd2 on the fact that she has asuspect mitochondrial disorder. that good enough for you?

OnEdge · 15/06/2010 19:42

SanctimoanyArse I am unable to answer your questions immediately because I am also settling the kids to sleep.

If you read the thread, you will see that it is SilverFrog

earthworm · 15/06/2010 19:46

SMA - there have been several studies that disprove the mmr/autism link but the Hornig study actually replicated the methods of Wakefield's original study, even using the same lab that Wakefield used to analyse the samples.

They looked at 25 children with autism and GI problems, and 11 children with GI problems only.

They categorically stated in their conclusion that there was no link.

However - their research is refuted by supporters of Wakefield, and bizarrely held up as actually supporting Wakefield.

Their main issues appear to be (and I am sure someone will be along shortly to correct me) that the measles virus was found in the bowel of one of the autistic children, and that the use of a lab that had previously been discredited (in a 2002 study from memory) somehow demonstrated that it should never have been discredited in the first place.

However - the measles virus was also found in the bowel of a child without autism and the conclusion was negative.

With regards the lab - I suspect that they had just cleaned up their act.

silverfrog · 15/06/2010 19:46

so what makes you think that there are so many people NOT basing their decisions on info other than the origianl lancet paper?

OnEdge · 15/06/2010 19:52

I`d just like to see the info. What info is it?

earthworm · 15/06/2010 19:53

silverfrog - if you are at home now, could you link to some research that demonstrates a link between the MMR and autism?

I've asked for this before but people keep ignoring me.

Published and peer-reviwed, obviously.

ArthurPewty · 15/06/2010 19:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

earthworm · 15/06/2010 19:56

Thank god, he is vindicated!

At last he can go ahead and sue Deer!

I wonder when that will happen exactly?

silverfrog · 15/06/2010 19:58

earthworm, sorry, I hvae no home compiuter at the minute. eveyting is done via phone (bizarre tale of wiring complexities leading to no broadband, and no hope of any for a while)

I occasionally manage very creaky mobile internet, but the signal isn't good enough

earthworm · 15/06/2010 19:58

Out of interest, what does he say in the book about the patent Leonie?

I always felt that that was particularly damning evidence against him and I am sure he will refute it at length.

earthworm · 15/06/2010 19:59

Fair enough silverfrog, that must be driving you mad - hopefully someone else will be along to post a link soon.

OnEdge · 15/06/2010 20:00

This goes to anyone who decided not to vaccinate their children. What did you base your decision on?