scientists identify genetic causes of autism

[elportodelgato]

story here from the Guardian

lots of people on here already know my views so just opening this up for comment. Does this research change anyone's opinion re: MMR?

I wouldn't think so, novicemama. I think the theory on MMR is that there is a small group of genetically susceptible children for whom the vaccine may act as a trigger resulting in regression and gut problems, and that this group is estimated at only around 7% of those diagnosed with autism.

I can't see how identifying the genetic variations involved in autism would, on its own, disprove this theory, but it sounds like a positive development anyway.

I don't think it will change anyone 's views. I know it is waste of time to say it but the 7 percent thing is a supposition plucked out of thin air.

I agree being run over by a bus can cause brain damage that could be DVD as autism but we accept that buses are useful in overall terms. Any vaccine can cause problems and even death in some rare cases but overall they are useful

DVD was meant to be dxd !

Autism Speaks (who part funded the research) are not very impartial - they have consistently denied the role of environmental triggers and firmly placed their bet on genetics. They have also lobbied the US government not to study environmental triggers. Alison Singer promotes the idea that parents who examine environmental triggers are deluded, looking for something to 'blame' and do not love and accept their children as they are - nice.

Don't think anyone is denying that there is quite obviously a genetic element of susceptibility to autism.

This sort of research fails to account for the rise in autism incidence though so it is hugely overly simplistic to think that it has much bearing on the Wakefield hypothesis. (Rather rubbish journalism BTW to assert that it does).

I think my children were much more vulnerable to enviromental assault that the average kid. I think this vulnerability is why the MMR was so catastrophic for DS2 and why he and the others have had no further jabs. I suspect they would have been similarly damaged had they had a natural virus at similar ages - indeed DS2s chicken pox in the months before the MMR probably made him struggle so.

So no. Don't believe it is genetics or MMR in every case. Sometimes it is more compliacted than that, in spite of everyones best intentions to make it a 'pick a side' type issue

I'm not sure why anyone would think it might change views on other fsctors in developig autism, tbh.

Autism is not one thing. There are many different presentations, with many different routes to autism.

SOme environmental, some genetic.

There is a group called Allergy Induced Autism, who swear that most symptoms of autism are caused by environmental factors. I am sure they know a lot more about their children's autism than I do.

Environmental stuff is undoubtedly an issue for dd1, but gneetics definitely have a role too.

There are multiple members of my family on the spectrum, and also a few members of dh's family too.

iirc, genetics is thought to be more of a factor in AS cases - thought to be behind the abnormal ASD figures in SIlicon Valley, for eg.

THis of course does not rule out genetics in what are seen as more severe forms of autism (and I really do mean "what is seen as..." - AS can be and often is very severe).

also, as mentioned in the article, CNVs canplay a role in lots of disorders, including epilepsy.

Nobody disputes that vaccinations are a bad idea for a lot of people with epilepsy - why, therefore, would this discovery exclude the idea that vaccinations maybe a bad idea for some people with autism?

Sounds an awful lot like denial again - back to the same old "oh yes, a virus can cause a regression, but not THIS virus, given at THIS time, only other virus'"

Scientists have largely moved beyond the simplistic 'a cause is either genetic OR environmental' idea. The two seem to interact. This latest study could be taken as providing more support for the idea of a vulnerable subset - the MMR vaccine might have particular effects on the children who have these variations.

We already know that medicines work differently in different populations - some drugs that work perfectly well for most people are far less effective in people with African heritage.

Hi People

Seriously you have got to get over this Wakefield stuff. It was basically a lie. He lied for money. This happens sometimes, even in science, but it gets found out and stopped - as we have seen, his research publication has been withdrawn and he has been struck off the medical register. It was also investigated further and no link found, so do give it a rest, ffs.

Measles, mumps and rubella have definitely been proven to be seriously damaging to babies and children. It used to be a massive problem, with many children suffering disability or dying. Hence why they have this vacination. If kids die because their idiotic parents didnt vaccinate them, you can definitely say it was the parents fault - that is a clear link.

Sessypoos, from the phrasing and content of your post, my guess is you know an awful lot less about the MMR and autism debate than many MNers. Do some research before telling everyone else to shut up.

What edam said.

I am sorry to be so dim but does this mean they can potentially test people to see if they carry the gene/are possibly autistic etc?

It would be easier than getting an Dx by assessment I reckon!

This was being discussed on Woman's Hour this morning - apparently they are a long way off being able to test yet.

I don't think what they are describing is as simple as that. The story I read suggested these mutations can be spontaneous, occurring only in the child, not the parent. (Although clearly there are strong links in some families and I'm sure the original paper discusses that at length.)

Yes sessypoos - and the Tooth Fairy exists; I know because the government told me .

Measles, etc having the potential to be serious does not somehow magically make the vaccine a safe good bet for everyone.

I know the DoH likes to treat us as a herd but we are actually all very different in how we react to both drugs and infections. I know it is inconvenient that we can't just jab everybody and have them react the same but that is I'm afraid what that pesky old thing called reality has shown us.

There are quite a number of people trying to hang on to the idea that vaccines are the ONLY drug that everybody reacts to in exactly the same way - a comforting but rather deluded idea as it turns out.

Beachcomber's right, if everyone reacted to vaccines in the same way, it would be a first for medical science. Especially as there are many different vaccines.

No-one claims everyone responds to any other drug the same way - ask any neurologist about enti-epileptics, or any psychologist about anti-depresants.

Anyway, Sassypoos seems to have been frightened off, having realised the level of debate here is pitched rather above his or her level...

Research into the subset of autistic children who have damaged guts would be interesting, though, and might give some important information for parents of children at risk. Shame everyone's been frightened off by the demonisation of Wakefield and anyone associated with him.

It's clear that MMR is as safe as any other medicine for almost all children (although it seems daft to vaccinate against mumps at a year when we know the vaccine becomes ineffective by the time they are at secondary school and the side effects of mumps would be worse). We need to find out what is happening with the rest.

Very complicated isn't it?

My eldest was clearly autistic from the day he was born, we just didn't know that's what it was. He never looked at us, you know that 'bonding time' people talk about when they gaze into your eyes when at the breast? None of that. He'd stiffen when I cuddled him. I used to cry that he didn't love me, he knew I was a bad mother etc etc.

My youngest - developed normally. Sociable, good eye contact, in fact it was because he was so different that we realised something was amiss with ds1.

And then, suddenly, out of the blue, at MMR time, he regressed. No more eye contact. No more interest.

Anyone would have said that child has CERTAINLY been damaged by the MMR. The change is too sudden and too extreme for it to be anything else.

Except - he never had the mmr. (ironically we were worried about the link to autism! )

So sudden regressions can happen at the age when they are normally having the MMR.

So in all honesty, I have no clue whether it is the reason or not. Whether it is the trigger in some cases of regression but others happen without it, or what. I do know that had ds2 had the mmr I would have been jumping up and down, convinced it was the reason.

However, I am one person, with only 2 experiences of autism. I wouldn't assume that I know it all and know all the reasons or have all the answers. I only have my opinion on my situation.

ive always known it to be genetic. my son (who has aspergers, diagnosed at 7, now 18) is exactly like my gran was, and im "touched" with aspergic traits. my half brother definitely has aspergers and my uncle (mad physicist) also has it although most of em potter along not having ever been diagnosed.

i always knew it was genetic in our case.

I don't like the way that some journo has decided that this discovery further invalidates AW's research!? HOW do they make that leap? and then report it as though it were an absolute given!?!?

I think it's largely genetic and I think I have a lot of extended family members on the spectrum (mildly, they all carved out good careers for themselves with NO support. Although the words shy and geek might have been used about them perhaps, I don't know).

My family history sound like yours VicarInaTuTu. I don't for a moment think MMR caused my son's autism, but then we have no history of crohns or coeliac or anything like that.