is multi-culturalism dead?

[yingers74]

Am not any good at doing links but won't try. Have read a lot of articles including the original (before the bombs) by Trevor Philips(I think, could be wrong) who thought the multi-cultural model had failed. What do people think?

Just to add that you missed the point about genocide completely....but I can't be arsed to put you straight.

Anyone watching Yasmin???

The sound of the muslim call to prayer really appeals to me-I am not a Muslim but when in Turkey this year the sound of the Mosques singing out throughout the harbour would send strange but lovely shivers down my spine-I just love the sound of the priests singing.

I am an idealist though!

Why has this been shown so late in the night?-so relevant to today-is anyone else watching it?

pd - that is a good idea, perhaps it should be a compulsory duty for all brits, abit like jury service. I read an article about an experiment where people of very different views or backgrounds etc were made to live together and the results were largely positive and enriching for all involved.

Hang on........let me put on my rose tinted glasses, ok done. Never believe we are doomed otherwise we will be, I think the older I get the more hopeful I get that people will eventually get it right. I look around and see many more mixed race/religious couples (including my own) and I believe that is one of many signs that we truly becoming a multi-cultural/racial world. Also I think that people are wising up to corporations and corrupt govts/organisations, nothing will improve overnight but we are slowly demanding fairer trade, environmentally friendly products etc etc. I was also touched by the response of the public to the Tsanami which put this govt to shame. Again am probably being naive, but it does help me to sleep at night! have a good night all x

Peachskin, tell my DP that!!

Oh, I forgot to tape it Dropinthe. It was on far too late for me to watch!

I fell asleep at the end-too much wine!Anyone knows what happened??

moondog you don't see the difference between:

"cultural practices and traditions" that I said

and

"religious traditions" that you paraphrased.

no wonder we don't agree.

English isn't my mother tongue, but then it isn't yours either, (you are Welsh, aren't you), so perhaps the others can help reconcile this difference.

and as for urban Muslim women, the last time I visited the East, I found women doctors, lawyers, judges, bureaucrats, Heads of Institutions, with or without the Hijab, or even the veil. To name a few cities: Dhaka, Karachi, Lahore, Islamabad, where you will find such women.

Hmmmm,PD I will award you a medal in pedantry.

I would argue that they are on and the same. You obviously wouldn't and therein lies our disagreement.

However,I can be pedantic back. Firstly it is decidedly odd to make assertions about women in general in urban situations. Some will be dense,some smart.
Secondly the 'even when fully veiled' comment suggests that you yourself can see how difficult this must be. Never mind the glass ceiling! Hopw about the fabric curtain!?

(English is my first language-I was brought up bilingually. I have noticed anomalies in your written style which have got me thinking too.)

(How appropriate! The muezzin is making the call to prayer as I type...)

Hello Dog-Moon or is it Moondog ?? Whatever !!

You used the word "genocide" in application to the Welsh and then say I missed the point ?

No, I think everyone on this thread understood exactly what you were saying. "Genocide" is simply the wrong word and concept. I think even my 14 month old son would be able to tell you that - he sees lots of International Law books in the house (Oooopppps...I forgot...you hate books don't you ???)

Yes, my use of "inverted commas" is very idiosyncratic (oh, my, my what a big word for someone with a degree in Philosophy !!) isn't it ?? So is your bigotry and snobbery in relation to "those who do not live in a democracy". You are annoyed that I have exposed your ignorance.

My Muslim friends would agree with most of what I have said here because we discuss the same things when we meet. They are all academics, lawyers, engineers or doctors. They are intelligent well-educated people, they just don't have the time to post on this website.

They respect me as much as I respect them. Concepts alien to you Moondog: "respect" and "tolerance" ?

I feel sorry for your Turkish neighbours. They don't know what utter rubbish you write about their country and religion on this website.

As for what I said about Israel, I have never ridiculed the Israeli's in respect of their religion. I live in a very Jewish part of London and I do not take the piss out of the way my Jewish neighbours dress, most of their women cover their hair entirely with a hat or scarf - some wear the Star of David.

I think any one reading your posts re. the ME and Islam, will realise that you take the piss. Taking the piss is very different from analysing something (just in case they didn't teach you that in your Philosphy classes!!)

Don't bother replying Moondog, because I simply can't be bothered to read it !!

Piss

Myself

Laughing

moondog, I love what you wrote, especially about my bad English. I have an excuse. It isn't my mother tongue!

If, despite English being yours, you insist that cultural and religious are one and the same, and your use of genocide occuring in Wales, then everything falls into place.

perhaps you should be a lexiconist, and we should all be required to adhere to your dictionary, then there wouldn't be any misunderstanding.

How about petitioning the compilers of Oxford and Cambridge dictionaries that they should stop using these two as separate words?

Still holding my sides...........

I feel the quality of the debate has declined somewhat. Now might be a good idea to move on as I don't think any of you are going to agree and it's rapidly turning into a slanging match.

Now I feel bad!

Why???

Conversation is a meeting of minds with different memories and habits. When minds meet, they don't just exchange facts: they transform them, reshape them, draw different implications from them, engage in new trains of thought. Conversation doesn't just reshuffle the cards: it creates new cards.
Theodore Zeldin

It's good to talk, says Oxford professor Theodore Zeldin, the author of Conversation (HiddenSpring Books, 2000). But engaging in world-changing dialogue involves more than sending and receiving information. The "new conversation" demands that you start with a willingness to emerge a slightly different person. Results cannot be predicted, but adventure is guaranteed. Here are a few of Zeldin's tips on talking.

Get out more.
"Asking the same old question, 'Who am I?', cannot get you very far. However fascinating you may think you are, there is a limit to what you can know about yourself. Other people are infinitely more interesting and have infinitely more to say."

Think ahead.
"Talk without thought is empty. Change the way you think, and you are already halfway to changing the world."

Be bold.
"We need to start using conversation to create courage in the face of failure. I'm talking about a balanced kind of courage that can resist disappointment and that can at last make us immune to the cynicism that has so long been our scourge."

Talk with purpose.
"The main purpose of engaging in conversation can no longer be personal advancement or respectability. Instead, I'd like for us to use conversations to create equality, to open ourselves to strangers, and, most practically, to remake our working world."

Now would not the multi-cultural model become almost obsolete if we (especially considering the last ´tip´) walk and talk with purpose and are willing to transform the current facts of life?

Theodore Zeldin

Cripes! A mad prof if ever there was one!! Looka the hair!!!

Yeah. Wacky looking (and fascinating sounding) bloke!

Good evening all. I can't post anything relevant, unless we're talking about kittens, but I just wanted to post as I passed by.

Peachskin, we should request a political forum, just for us barnies - or barmies?

Evening bubble!
We can't tempt you then?

I lost track of this thread about three days ago.

On a personal level I think that multi-culturalism works if all parties involved are worldly, interested and reasonably intelligent. I'm going to get shot down for this I'm sure, but it seems to me that extremists of any faith are usually nutters.

The settlements are/were populated by Jews from anywhere but Israel. Usually from the US, they moved into these areas to cause as much trouble as possible.

Hamas. The extremists within them have no intention of ever trying to find a peaceful solution to a struggle which has been going on for thousands of years.

Paisley junior and senior. Pissed off because they may well find themselves out of a job if civilsed power-sharing goes ahead.

Multi-culturalism works when your child goes to play with the Jewish/Muslim/Jeddi kid from school. When people are able to speak freely about the differences between them without risking charges of being un-PC.

Tony speak and the PC culture has done so much harm. Humans are a naturally inquisitive species, yet we are now so afraid to question why so-and-so does/wears X,Y and Z.