Well done Belgium. Veil banned

[Nuttybear]

I fully support this. Really wish the liberals would put aside there protection of these men and free the women here. I vote for bring the same law here. I despise the veil and all it stands for. I saw a woman trip and fall because she could not see the kerb!!! Her husband/uncle/dad then had to guide her over the next kerb. I saw them again in the supermarket I so wanted to throw eggs at him but it would only make her plight worse. I know a minority want to wear the veil. Well, there are countries that support that decision. I know it might make matter worse for some but there must be a stand to free these women of this 13th century habit. Wearing of the veil is not in the Koran. All for modest dress, if you so wish but, unable to look around your world freely is wrong.

same for segreation. same applies.

EggyAllenPoe See my post 22-Apr-10 15:37:57 about balancing the needs of some against the needs of others/society

I'm sure we can all think of at least two items/types of clothing that you wouldn't be allowed to wear in public - except perhaps on stage.

But you question governments banning things in principle? So how about these?

"does anyone think governments should be able to ban people from going where they like" YES (my living room when I'm out, the middle of motorways etc )

"does anyone think governments should be able to ban people eating what they like"
YES if it doesn't belong to them or is a drug/poison.

And so on

Governments are supposed to ban things and it's a good ban if it helps some significantly without causing significant harm to others.

I think a woman wearing in the West does it in spite of those things, I think it is part protest and part religion, quite childish really. She does it to please her maker. What sort of person believes in a maker that would ask this of them? Besides there is no mention in the Koran of covering the face, it is a cultural thing.

Each woman wearing the veil must know that she only adds to the ill feeling towards Muslims, she must know that people can't approach her, that she is invisible and she still sees this as the right thing to do. She chooses to be a thorn.

The point being Posie, that whilst she may feel invisible by wearing a burka or veil, she is not, as it is not the norm in Western Europe, and so wearing it draws attention.

Onagar: my own experience is that I work from home, haven't seen my current boss for over 8 years, never met my previous boss. It has caused no problems/miscommunications whatever. Maybe I have to put a little more thought into emails but really, its not a problem.

Scary, true true. So she becomes a Muslim and nothing more.

Onagar, I agree with you of course that we can only have civil liberties to the extent that they don't infringe on anybody else's. That's a must. But wearing a veil doesn't infringe on anybody else's civil liberties in any way whatsoever. It doesn't cause segregation - it is perfectly possible to talk to a woman wearing a veil. In fact, the kind of views that have been expressed on this thread are much more productive of segregation (see posieparker's last, for instance) - i.e., refusing other people the right to have an opinion or wear their own clothes.

I would also like to add that anyone who believes that wearing a veil encourages some pre-existing 'ill feeling towards Muslims', and then blames the wearers of said veils, should examine just why they think wearing the veil is worse than bearing such 'ill feeling' towards a religious group with something like a billion adherents. How can you have 'ill feeling' towards a billion people? It's just generalising, ignorant, prejudiced rubbish. It's this undefined 'ill feeling' that needs to be changed, not the freedom to wear a veil.

Great point ttl

the veil is not part of our customs in this country. If I go to a foreign country I do my best to fit in with their customs and be unoffensive (eg dressing modestly, not wearing a bikini top walking down the street).
I do feel offended when I see people wearing these veils that cover their entire face. It makes me feel distrustful and afraid, (as in -what are they hiding?). In my mind it is associated with masked robbers, gunmen, klukluxclan.
It makes the person unidentifiable (who can even tell if its a woman?), unfriendly (cant show a smile), unexpressive, unable to communicate effectively and thus also very isolated.

If I can see a woman's face when she is wearing a veil, I don't have a problem with it, in fact I think it can look nice, and if women wish to express themselves in that way then why not?

What I don't like to see is women with their face covered. That seems oppressive to me, and it puts up unnecessary barriers to communication if you can't see facial expressions.

(who can even tell if its a woman?)

Easy. Look at the feet. Men might be able to manage the nail polish but not those sandals.

There's a lot of niquab wearers round here and I don't think I've ever seen one who didn't have lovely feminine feet.

Freedom and veil wearing is an oxymoron of an idea.

Let the poor fools wear veils, let them continue to be oppressed and live a non western existence in a Western society. Let them marry men who swim freely in trunks on a hot day whilst they look ridiculous swimming covered. Let these women enjoy the freedoms that a western society gives them whilst sticking two fingers up to the west.

The more i think about this the more 'when in Rome..' rings true.

Sessypoos - the veil is part of 'our' customs in this country, because many Muslim women who wear the veil live in this country, and it is their country too. It is not a 'foreign' country to somebody who has lived here all their life. And customs change - otherwise we'd all be wearing crinolines, or bearskins, or whatever else people have worn in this country in the past.

What we are all doing, those for and against the ban, are ignoring the fact that the Belgian Government are trying to control some of the more extreme practices of Islam by making Belgium unappealing to Muslims who are reluctant to integrate into Western culture.

They obviously have valid reasons for this. In the West we don't just fling out laws willy nilly , it's not a dictatorship and the Government won't have just come to this conclusion. They will have very sound reasoning behind it and it probably goes far deeper than the rights of women.

Hang on it's either an expression of religion and therefore one is always modest for their maker or it's a fashion item.....surely you either wear it always or your maker is not pleased.

posieparker, the fact that you have resorted to vitriolic and antagonistic language shows that there's more emotion than reason in your argument. Are Christians who choose not to have sex until they marry living out of step with the West? Are they 'sticking two fingers' up to the countries they were born in? You are the one sticking two fingers up to Western freedoms.

Al....interesting.

West doesn't mean Christian.

Hurray for Belgium!

Here some places already ask people to remove their motorcycle helmets before entering. Hoodies are banned in some shopping centres. If 'hoddies' started wearing balaclavas, I think there would certainly be political debate about banning them.

This is not a religious issue.