Well done Belgium. Veil banned

[Nuttybear]

I fully support this. Really wish the liberals would put aside there protection of these men and free the women here. I vote for bring the same law here. I despise the veil and all it stands for. I saw a woman trip and fall because she could not see the kerb!!! Her husband/uncle/dad then had to guide her over the next kerb. I saw them again in the supermarket I so wanted to throw eggs at him but it would only make her plight worse. I know a minority want to wear the veil. Well, there are countries that support that decision. I know it might make matter worse for some but there must be a stand to free these women of this 13th century habit. Wearing of the veil is not in the Koran. All for modest dress, if you so wish but, unable to look around your world freely is wrong.

This woman was wearing a veil and the slit was so small she could not see. There would be other things I would agree with you on but, sorry not this. Sometimes we need to move things forward and stop protecting the brainwashing by these men on some wonderful women. Watched the programme on Afghan women yesturday and it made me cry. I have not returned to Pakistan since I was 11 because of the oppressive thinking.

Are you serious? What is your problem with the way they choose to dress. Knowing many women who wear the veil, and many more who don't. Have you ever spoken to a woman in a niqab? Asked her how she feels about it? Asked her if she is forced to or whether it was her choice?

There are some places where it is used as a form of oppression but many others where women choose to completely of the own accord. You should go and find out whether or not women who wear it find it oppressive before you go ahead with your diatribe.

Completely agree Riven.

I opened this thread hoping it was going to be a sarcastic comment on the decision that Belgium has made.

Unfortunately I was wrong .

I think that banning it is also a form of oppression and persecution.

I applaud Belgium and their bravery in such a controversial decision. Oppression dressed up as religion is still oppression. I would rather have state oppression that serves to protect women and integration for muslims within western society than cultural oppression that serves ONLY to segregate and marginalise Muslim women.

And asking a deluded and oppressed woman whether she is so is rather pointless, I think it is a form of extremism. Same as asking a whore if she is a victim of a misogynist society.

so whats happened previously then? have women wearing the veil used it as a guise whilst comitting crimes?

I strongly believe that the way towards freedom for all is through education - these kinds of gestures may be, although I very much doubt it, well-meant, but they actually create more problems for the people that they claim to want to help.

also it is very unenvironmental ,im sure there will be a massive surge in the use of hair care products as a result ,shame on the belgians

Riven you do not wear anything that covers your face...

i am so torn on this... instinctively i'm a bit jack straw about it and just wish i could see people's faces, but otoh there are a couple of mums i'm pally with at dd's nursery who cover there faces and they're anything but oppressed. and in a way it's made them more outgoing because they know they have to come up and poke me in the shoulder if they're wearing a new scarf, because i probably won't twig otherwise. hmmmm. but personally i still wish i could see their faces, because unless english is great it's a bit of a barrier to communication.

i wouldn't dream of legislating against is, however.

Being modest for your maker is something I cxan accept as an expression of religion. However losing your physical identity, losing the ease of integration, pushing 'modesty' on young girls(quite perverse) are all things that are seriously messed up. I saw a young Muslim, no more than eight, wearing a hijab and I thought why would she need to? What sort of perverse being would expect that?

I really don't know enough to comment really.

But I don't think that the niqab is all that restrictive to sight. I was chatting to a woman wearing one in the queue at Asda yesterday - we got talking because me and dd were chatting to her baby boy in a pram, syaing how lovely he was. Had a perfectly nice conversation with her, could read the expression in her eyes, could see she was smiling. She seemed a confident and happy woman, as far as you can tell from a 5 minute chat in Asda. She also was expressive in her clothes, her niqab was patterned, she had eye make up on, she had the most beautiful pair of high heeled sandals on.

I think a lot of people who do not grow up with niqab wearing women in their community fear them.

Recent thread on this subject with some very interesting debate.

Surely taking away someones right to wear what they want is a form of oppression?

Nuttybear - you really are nutty - you dont know that man, but you wanted to throw eggs at him

"I applaud Belgium and their bravery in such a controversial decision. Oppression dressed up as religion is still oppression. I would rather have state oppression that serves to protect women and integration for muslims within western society than cultural oppression that serves ONLY to segregate and marginalise Muslim women.

And asking a deluded and oppressed woman whether she is so is rather pointless, I think it is a form of extremism. Same as asking a whore if she is a victim of a misogynist society."

FFS Posie you don't have a clue. Asking whore if she is a victim of a misogynist society (so pointless I had to quote it twice). Lads mags are alright though yes? It's terrible if a woman wears a niqab but ok for her to walk down the street half naked because that's freedom. Don't you see the hypocrisy? If a woman goes to Iran and wears a bikini and get's into trouble because of it we'd have shouts of "that's not right" "oppression" blah blah blah, but a woman comes to a forward thinking Western country and is told what she is or isn't allowed to wear.

I'm torn as well Aitch - I think it is because in Europe we don't cover our faces and it is expected perhaps that everyone will adhere to that, just as I would wear an abaya and not drive if I lived in Saudi.

I bet France will bring their legislation forward now that Belgium has gone first. It will be interesting to see if there are protests here about it, good job dh is on leave next week if the EU quarter is full of protesters.

I think it's a terrible decision. I always thought Belgium would be a great place to live, now I'm not so sure. In terms of preventing women from falling over, banning high heels would be a lot more relevant, or banning the wearing of sunglasses indoors. I hope there are no plans to do either. Having opinions about particular types of clothing is absolutely fine but legal moves against them??? and they call Britain a nanny state!

"saw a young Muslim, no more than eight, wearing a hijab and I thought why would she need to?" Posie the fact of it is, a muslim female does not have to wear a hijab until she has hit puberty. You saw a girl wearing it but don't know why. Maybe she wanted to wear it because she see's her mum wearing it. The point is. The Islamic religion itself does not force a child to wear a hijab, and does not force a woman to cover her face with a burqa, niqab, face veil whatever.

At the other extreme(sort of) should it be okay for naturists to not cover up at all?

My father was in Nice and after coming off the beach wearing shorts and sandals was asked to put a shirt on as it was not allowed for people to walk around stripped to the waist walking around town.