Well done Belgium. Veil banned

[Nuttybear]

I fully support this. Really wish the liberals would put aside there protection of these men and free the women here. I vote for bring the same law here. I despise the veil and all it stands for. I saw a woman trip and fall because she could not see the kerb!!! Her husband/uncle/dad then had to guide her over the next kerb. I saw them again in the supermarket I so wanted to throw eggs at him but it would only make her plight worse. I know a minority want to wear the veil. Well, there are countries that support that decision. I know it might make matter worse for some but there must be a stand to free these women of this 13th century habit. Wearing of the veil is not in the Koran. All for modest dress, if you so wish but, unable to look around your world freely is wrong.

I think this is ridiculous. Imo it is islamophobia taking convenient pot-shots. Many women at DP's church cover their heads and some have veils that pull across their faces. No-one has ever suggested they're poor, oppressed women forced to wear the veil ... because they're mostly white and Christian. Interesting.

Just in church or out in everyday life LRD?

It is islamophobia saying "you are not welcome here"

Whatever happened to live and let live

Another fan of the ban here. Good for Belgium.

Some do both, scary, not all though.

Katty - just saw your post - are you really comparing wearing a veil (ime, painless) with female circumcision (which is defined as torture)?

What also horrifies me, is the fact that french parliamentary committees are also considering a move to refuse residence cards and citizenship to anyone who displays signs of "radical religious practice".

I don't have a problem with that at all.
Why have people in the country who are active in their hatred of your way of life/religion/ womens rights/equality laws etc?

It is not Islamaphobia.

I love Queen Rania of Jordan, and think she's an excellent role model for women, not just Muslim women the world over.

She's a big advocate of girls doing sports, and she says the veil interferes with women taking healthy exercise. I can see how that could happen. She doesn't feel the need to wear a veil to be a devout Muslim, and runs 10 Km daily in the open air, so I read.

Maybe the full veil is bad for womens health also in sun starved northern and dark southern climes, away from the Gulf?
We need Vitamin D to absorb calcium and we don't get it if we wear a veil when outside: it's simple logic really.

So, here are two examples when wearing a full veil can damage your health - restricting the exercise you can take, and for your vitamin D production - putting women at further risk of the excruciatingly painful condition of crumbling bones -osteoporosis in life.

There is a Kuwaiti Mum in DD's school who at 43 has osteoporosis. She's very strict about her veil, but I wonder has it served her well? Is it relevant in these sunless latitudes?

eggy--apologies!

Radical religious practice is what blew up buildings and brainwashes the bible belt of the U.S.

Wearing a veil, as opposed to banning it, says I don't want to be western, I want to be hidden and I am not approachable.

Yes, I think the Vitamin D issue has been discussed on here before and is a common problem.
Of course it is an inhibiting garment, socially and physically. I think it is a hard argument for feminists - it is an obvious symbol of oppression and archaic views on sexuality and womens being blamed for mens actions yet we should also argue for freedom of expression.
This has to change or we will find ourselves defending the very things that we have fought against for so long

Covering your face is not an 'extreme position'. It's your face, do what you like with it. Banning an item of clothing is utterly ridiculous. I wouldn't care one bit if my doctor wore a veil, as long as she has a medical degree.

And as for saying that women only think they have the freedom to choose to wear a veil - IMO that is a bit patronising. People could easily say that women in the West only think they are themselves choosing to wear short skirts, and that our own dress has equally enslaving consequences, including sexual assault, the objectification of the female body, premature sexualisation of children (remember Primark, anyone?), and the unhealthy obsession with a falsified image of the female body that is known to contribute to eating disorders and self-loathing. I DO NOT agree with that position - I'm just saying that from the outside it's easy to see any kind of clothing as inappropriate and easy to say that women aren't really free to make their own choices.

I don't see what the problem is with a woman wearing a veil. Lady Gaga is wearing sunglasses made out of cigarettes in her latest video - I don't see anybody complaining about that! Legislation is ridiculous on this issue IMO.

How would members of the Catholic Churh have felt had the gvt BANNED women covering thier heads in church? Or BANNED the practice of 'churching' - a blessing for women who have given birth, before which they are not considered 'clean' enough to enter a church?

Although I support the gvt attempts to stop christian churches discriminating against employees and adopters.

PS - just seen another post. Wearing a veil doesn't necessarily say 'I don't want to be Western, I want to hidden, and I am not approachable'. It might also say, I am a Muslim and my faith is important to me. Have you asked any Muslim women how they feel about wearing the veil? Perhaps we should stop telling women who wear it what it signifies, and listen to what they say it means (and start giving credit to them for their answers).

MrsRuffalo, what exactly is radical religious practice then? Is it wearing the burkha, niqab, the headscarf? Is it attending a mosque or taking the day off for Eid? Is it fasting? Is it talking about your religion? Talking about your religion in large gatherings? Should there be restrictions on how many muslims should be in one place at one time?

The whole point is they are just words and no definitions. And do you honestly think they will stop just at muslims. It seriously brings to mind Pastor Martin Niemoller (i think that's how you spell it). It's all about eroding civil liberties.

And Zazen, the government are not doing it for health benefits.

And littlereddragon, she really did compare it to female circumcision but I bit my tongue (and my fingers)

Bleached whale, it's been a long, long time since Catholic women in the UK have covered their heads. I can barely remember my mother doing it--in the sixties!

Wow, do really believe that some of these things are radical Caged Bird?
You ahve lived a very sheltered existence

Fwiw I do believe that a man who insists that his wife wear the burka does have fairly radical beliefs don't you?

Really? Would they be interested in hearing why some women here don't like it and find it offensive?
Then we could all listen to each other and that would be great

It's a tough one.

On the one hand I am against a ban. I think women should be able to choose what to wear, and if that's a veil, so be it.

However no one can deny that SOME Muslim women are oppressed and the veil is part of that.

My FIL is Pakistani. He says that when he was growing up Muslim women tended to wear the niqab (headscarf) and the full burka was regarded as a Middle Eastern abberation.

So it is not a requirement to wear them.

The issue is whether it is the woman's own choice (in which case fine) or if she is foreced into it.

Personally speaking, I could never wear anything that prevented me from doing all the things I love (running, cycling, hiking...having peripheral vision) and am at a loss to see why anyone would actively choose to wear one.

I am a Muslim and my religion is importnat to me and so I express it by wearing something that makes me invisible, unapproachable and very non western.

I don't actually care how a Muslim woman sees wearing the veil, this is much broader than someone's subjective view.

Mrsruffalo the point is that nobody is advocating banning your behaviour. If somebody did, he or she would at least need to do you the courtesy of finding out what you're doing and why, before banning it wholesale based on nothing but ignorance and prejudice.

I'm not saying that you, personally, are ignorant or prejudiced, but that it's ridiculous that some people are voicing the opinions of people they have never spoken to and dictating the meanings of their dress without having found out what the meanings are for the people that wear it. I don't think that's too much to ask. Isn't that what democracy is for?

And I'm not saying that people are wrong to object to veils - we're all free to object as we like. But while we can object to other people's behaviour, unless it infringes on our own civil liberties, we have no right to ban it. That's the fundamental premise of a real democracy, surely?

In my definition of it, the only thing you could ban would be men who force their women to wear veils against their will (which would be an unenforcable and totally stupid law). And if we're going to ban veils on health grounds, lets ban high heels, sunbathing without suncream, and corset tops while we're at it.

"Wow, do really believe that some of these things are radical Caged Bird?
You ahve lived a very sheltered existence"

No Mrsruffalo, and that's my point, i neither find wearing a burkha radical

posieparker, if all views on this are subjective, then yours is too, and the law is a useless thing to apply because there's no right or wrong answer.

Again, all I'm saying is that people are on here pretending to know what the veil 'means' without having any experience of it or having done any research into the views of those who wear it. And there's no way around that - it's just prejudice, because it is a deliberately uninformed opinion.