Well done Belgium. Veil banned

[Nuttybear]

I fully support this. Really wish the liberals would put aside there protection of these men and free the women here. I vote for bring the same law here. I despise the veil and all it stands for. I saw a woman trip and fall because she could not see the kerb!!! Her husband/uncle/dad then had to guide her over the next kerb. I saw them again in the supermarket I so wanted to throw eggs at him but it would only make her plight worse. I know a minority want to wear the veil. Well, there are countries that support that decision. I know it might make matter worse for some but there must be a stand to free these women of this 13th century habit. Wearing of the veil is not in the Koran. All for modest dress, if you so wish but, unable to look around your world freely is wrong.

are you talking about a democratically elected nudist colony leadership, which represents the majority view, banning clothes inside a nudist colony for people who choose to live there?

because that's the right comparison to make

LOL!!!

I have just realised (about to browse the bravissimo website) that earlier i said I may be unwittingly buying into an oppressive male society in the UK by wearing a bra.

But bras are worn for comfort, it's impossible to jump up and down without one on, and I get terrible back-ache without support.

How is a bra a symbol of oppression?

Sorry i know I've gone off at a tangent but really, they're not are they. Some are (if worn for perkiness etc), some aren't, if worn for comfort and practicality. Surely?

You aren't allowed to wear clothes in most nudist colonies AFAIK

Mumoverseas: Fascinating, is it usually just foreigners that don't cover if they can away with it? Don't you get 'looks' from the locals?

LOL, The Saudi King drove past our building once.. I've never seen such an entourage.... It took literally half an hour for them all to pass, at speed too! They shut the road for hours in advance, it was soooo peaceful. Mind you they do that for Mubarek when he comes to visit the Library next door.

Though for the Saudi King, we had teams of marksmen on our roof top.... no-one else ever got that, not even Mubarek!

I think the very existence of such a thing as the religious police says it all, about Saudi Arabia anyhow.

I think that a lot of people on this thread who do not know (m)any Muslims and have a very superficial understanding of the religion have been really sucked in by some of the interpretations which are dominant at the moment and which have the most funding in the world.

There are many of us Muslim women who feel very blessed to be Muslim and who are not in the slightest bit oppressed by their faith. It is really insulting and ignorant to suggest that we cannot think for ourselves.

Saadia: when Islam is enacted by law it does seem to become oppressive.

It's wonderful that just like with Christianity, the modern world and the modern woman has found a way to "live" Islam with an interpretation and understanding of faith which is much less restrictive and prejudiced than their Holy Books would allow. Although oddly, the full veil and the burkha seem to be more restrctive than is laid down. Very odd.

I don't think it makes much difference to Belgium banning the full veil in public though.

LMHF there are a mixture of types of dress by the locals here. I would say the majority of young saudi women wear abayas and headscarfs although some obviously do cover their faces. It is very rare however (in the main malls) to see the fully covered up ladies (ie burqa and gloved hands) I've not seen that many since I've been here and the majority of those were not in the western malls but in local souks.

There is one mall which has a ladies only floor and the there is security at the door of the lifts/escalators that go to that floor and (male security to stop men going up) and at the top there are female security officers that ensure women are not veiled. There are actually signs up saying that the must remove veils and they do quite happily. Some women even take abayas off up there and it is lovely and relaxed. several coffee shops and a Starbucks in Debenhams and it is nice to sit with the locals who often talk to me (and fuss over my gorgeous blond DS)

We had the road closure thing a few times. Think it was when Putin was out here visiting the king and all of a sudden there were low flying helicopters and police and army were blocking the exits and entrances to the motorway whilst the convey went past and we were stuck for around half an hour. We also now live just a mile from the Kings 'out of town palace' and often the roads are closed outside for short periods when he is travelling to the palace, usually on a Wednesday night.

What have the amish to do with anything? don't get it

lots of interesting points here Riven and yet you bring up the Amish?

what's wrong with fitting in? I wouldn't want to offend the dominant culture in Asia or the Middle East. It's not respectful.

That's lovely. I do too. But like I say: I wouldn't want to offend the dominant culture in Asia or the Middle East. It's not respectful. And how is this different?

Well of course you don't find it offensive. But obviously a majority in Belgium does. Possibly it's a cultural thing. In France it's a cultural and a secular thing. Respect works both ways.

It's not respectful to offend a dominant culture in these superficial ways, such as clothing. I'm sure you'd agree when it comes to mini skirts in a Hindu country? or would you not?

Mumoverseas: so in effect women are told by the religious police to cover up, then they go to a mall and get told to take it off! you couldn't make it up could you!

DS has blue eyes and light brown curly hair, pic on profile still I think... he went down a storm in Alex!

the dominant culture does include includes the uncovered face though

no one is talking about headscarves or turbans or safety pins

well I'm not anyway people can wear what they want and be judged accordingly

but the covered face is not a part of the dominant culture of Belgium or most of Europe

mmrsceptic.. to nit pick, do we have any idea on the reasons why Belgium rejected the veil? all I have heard is that it was rejected, anyone point us in a more descriptive direction?

Were they offended, or did they reject it because it didn't fit into their society? It could be cultural rather than being thought of as offensive.

Crop tops and spaghetti strap tops are not permissible, culturally, in many many countries. Such clothing deeply offends the locals, even the baring of the upper arms. It's perfectly logical for the west to have their own cultural issues with certain choices of dress.

If the KSA can tell expats to cover the hair at all times, surely the west can say that faces are not to be covered.

It's not like anyone has much of an issue with the veil for the hair, it's only the full faced veil that is causing the 'problem'.

well, they didn't quite get there but..

a variety of reasons across parties

Centre-right -- 'The notion of recognising people in the street is essential to maintain public order.
'It's also a question of human dignity. The full face veil turns a woman into a walking prison, and we have widespread cross-party support to have this item outlawed.'

government -- 'The point is not outlawing religious freedom, but public security and the need to show one's face in public.'