Well done Belgium. Veil banned

[Nuttybear]

I fully support this. Really wish the liberals would put aside there protection of these men and free the women here. I vote for bring the same law here. I despise the veil and all it stands for. I saw a woman trip and fall because she could not see the kerb!!! Her husband/uncle/dad then had to guide her over the next kerb. I saw them again in the supermarket I so wanted to throw eggs at him but it would only make her plight worse. I know a minority want to wear the veil. Well, there are countries that support that decision. I know it might make matter worse for some but there must be a stand to free these women of this 13th century habit. Wearing of the veil is not in the Koran. All for modest dress, if you so wish but, unable to look around your world freely is wrong.

Tabloid Hype?????

it happens a lot

Msrisotto, meant to answer you earlier I reckon you're pretty right, it can be comparable, but this doesn't make it right. Some countries are stricter than others. Also, these are the countries that "Westerners" like to look down upon taking the high moral ground. So why go down to their level.

Msrisotto - no, because UK culture is made up of many diverse groups, many of whom do wear clothes to do with their culture. Nuns and priests are a part of that, as are people who wear crosses, religious tattoos, Jewish clothing etc. And because UK culture is founded on freedom of expression.

Alouiseg, what 'happens a lot'?

The abuse of a veil/burqa to commit a crime. Was the link not working?

Ah, sorry, I've just realised that was a link. Those were men using the clothing as a disguise. So perhaps we should ban wigs, false moustaches, balaclavas, hoodies, and in fact all clothing that could be used as a disguise. So all clothing.

Oh alouise wow it's an epidemic, it's happened all of twice. Nobody else has ever been able to pull of a robbery in disguise before, what did they do before the muslims arrived with their burkhas

babymutha you are absolutely right in that I do not know many Muslim women, and even less women who wear the full niqab.

However, even if I did, it would make no difference to my reasoning whatsoever.

For the simple reason that when thinking about this question, I try to have as logical a thought process as possible.

I guess that fundamentally I don't see it as a religious issue but one that concerns how we function within society.

If someone chose to wear a habit similar to a niqab but for non-religious reasons, I would also object...

msrisotto interesting point - is the belgian parliament thinking of restricting the right of nuns to go out wearing head coverings? Or is it just one religious group of women they are irrationally afraid of.

Been thinking about this today while I was out, about what I said 3 trillion pages ago about how if many women in the UK wore a full veil it would limit social interactions that at the moment people take for granted.

Was just thinking that i suppose in countries where most women are fully veiled, I guess there are more opportunities for women to be together in women only situations, someone ealrier mentioned all female shopping centres I think - so women can go to the all female places and remove the covering and have all teh usual social interactions.

But then I thought, if as people are arguing, the veil is not restrictive or uncomfortable, and does not interfere with communication, why do women take it off when there are no men present? Why not put it on in the morning when you get dressed, then take it off at bedtime? Why the need for women only spaces (apart from things like the gym) if wearing the veil is not a hindrance in any way?

For caged mother

Minette the trouble is that you're talking about other people's relationship with god and secondguessing it, then accusing them of hypocrisy. I think logically it's important to talk to real people before you decide what their thinking tis all...

.. tsk.. what "they're thinking", appalling typo, apologies

me likes portofino, where can I purchase one? Only if it's leather though

babymutha, the Belgian govt has proposed that "clothing" that makes identification in public should be illegal. It is not (on the surface) about banning clothing worn for religious reasons. It would also become illegal for a person to wear a balaclava in a public place for example.

And as already mentioned, the govt has broken down totally today, so who knows when this bill will actually become law.

Well, aren't nuns and priests employed by the church? I'd make a distinction there 9generous

Re: taking the high ground and freedom of expression- I'm not for banning of headscarves and veils that do show the face but wondering from the culture of the UK re: covering the face is something criminals do and the sunglasses disclaimer doesn't work because it is impolite and makes people uncomfortable if they're not removed if you're indoors and when talking to people.

If that means banning hideous beards I'm in favour

thanks portofino, I am better informed.
Still think it's a daft law though - what about in the winter when it's freezing? I'm often to be found wearing a balaclava. oh, no I'm not, but I've often considered it, 'specially in the snow, and would hate to find myself freezing, in Belgium, and unable to whip one on.

babymutha - are you joking about the balaclava?

What about the snood?! I love a snood in winter.

babymutha second-guessing is exactly what I am not doing.

I am not saying this is what they do or what they think.

Instead of hypocrisy let's call it strange double standard: why claim a practice is a personal choice, strictly between an individual and their God when, as ImSoNotTelling points out, said practice is actually regulated by societal factors such as the presence of men, interaction in public places, etc.

If this was just about a woman's right to choose and modesty in the sense of 'freedom from vanity or conceit', why not wear it 24/7? Whenever, wherever. Why is it about men and being seen by others who are not close family?

It is about private vs. public and a woman's place in society, not piety.

'Did you mean it makes any ignorant onlookers insecure and afraid, because they dont understand why?'

I don't understand why, and I also don't understand why Cherry would feel that the hijab represents her identity. You are your identity. I am a bit as to the ignorant part of the comment. Educate us; explain why some Muslim women feel the need to cover their hair or their faces, because I don't get it. I don't want to go off and plough through a reading list as my text book pile is high enough already, but I need this explained by a woman who covers, in whatever way, why she does it.

'Also, these are the countries that "Westerners" like to look down upon taking the high moral ground. So why go down to their level.' The separation between cultures is apparent here - down to whose level? The 'Westerners'? Who do the Westerners look down on?

Just about to comment that the thread's title is rather pre emptive, but I see Portofino has beaten me too it.

Belgium gov collapsed. Yet again. It's the king I feel sorry for, he really cannot cope with this sort of stress.

I have to admit i don't understand all the reasons for the breakdown - a lesson certainly in why hung parliaments are bad! Maybe the PM saw this thread and got confused!

msrisotto
I 2nd Riven's last post. My 2 yo is shouting 'i want some more mayonnaise' and I am not being a very good mother blethering on, on here. nite nite all.