Well done Belgium. Veil banned

[Nuttybear]

I fully support this. Really wish the liberals would put aside there protection of these men and free the women here. I vote for bring the same law here. I despise the veil and all it stands for. I saw a woman trip and fall because she could not see the kerb!!! Her husband/uncle/dad then had to guide her over the next kerb. I saw them again in the supermarket I so wanted to throw eggs at him but it would only make her plight worse. I know a minority want to wear the veil. Well, there are countries that support that decision. I know it might make matter worse for some but there must be a stand to free these women of this 13th century habit. Wearing of the veil is not in the Koran. All for modest dress, if you so wish but, unable to look around your world freely is wrong.

It is Male oppression that causes the majority of women to wear the wretched things in the first place.

Islam is a patriarchal religion, although tbh aren't they all?

The point that many of us who support the ban are making is that it doesn't work for both sexes. The men wear whatever they choose and the women are implicitly coerced into covering up.

Tolerant society posie? Extremes? Are these women attacking you in the street, should they be attacked themselves for wearing it?

From the Quran itself:

You can marry up to four wives. If you can?t treat them with equality marry only one or a slave. 4:3

You can beat your wife if you fear that she will disobey you. 4:34

Men take care of women because they excel over them and pay to support them. 4:34

Men are ?a degree above? women. 2:228

You can marry a captured woman or slave even if she is already married to another man. 4:24

You can own female sex-slaves. (23:6, 70:30) Just like Muhammad 33:50

A wife is ?a tilth? (cultivated farmland) and you may ?go to your tilth? as you wish. 2:223

When you draft a formal contract pick two men as witnesses. If few men are available, pick a man and two women because one of the women might forget. 2:282

Will that do you takethat

pmsl- When you draft a formal contract pick two men as witnesses. If few men are available, pick a man and two women because one of the women might forget. 2:282

I think your totally wrong about Pakistan.
I go very often, my family and in laws are more forward and modern there than you will find in the communites here. Im British who is also proud to be from a Pakistani background. I am proud of the Urdu language (which I speak at home)and culture.
I think the Pakistani British communites you see in places like Birmingham (Alum Rock/Small Heath areas) are definately more backwards and hvnt moved with the time. Maybe people from Azad Kashmir or tribal or rural people but the City people are definately more forward. The girls are very fashionable there.

So you're not going to define this 'extreme' activity, then?

I'm leaving this thread now because it's going round in circles. I personally do not choose to wear the veil, because of my own cultural, personal and religious beliefs. I totally oppose the idea that if I wear a short skirt that gives men a right to touch me or make inappropriate advances, in fact, because I hold feminist beliefs and think that my body is my own to do what I like with. But for that exact same reason I support the right of women to wear whatever they like.

The argument that it is offensive/makes people uneasy just reveals the ignorance and insecurity of those people.

The argument that it is not feminist misunderstands the principle of civil liberties on which feminism relies for its very existence.

The argument that it stops its wearers from communicating or doing sports has been refuted by Riven, who is the only person on this thread who actually wears a veil.

This is ridiculous.

Thanks Kerrymumbles, point made.
I posted my last before seeing Alouiseg's response.

KM, we're not discussing the Bible's shite though are we?

Cagedbird....I am not attacking these women in the street, I am standing up for women. i suppose you think it's okay for women to strip and prostitute themselves too.

If it's not in the Koran, then why is it worn?

Sorry Riven, I was just going on a previous post. Shouldn't have assumed.

nope you are standing up for women who are like you. so now you're comparing women who cover themselves up to prostitutes? Clever argument .

Oh alouise, you've read the Quran I see. All of it. Every last chapter. You are ignorant. And that post has made you as bad as the ignorant islamic extremists who use those same quotes (out of context!) to oppress women.

"If it really was about equality then we'd see decent rape conviction rates, equal pay blah de blah de blah.
But we don't."

No we don't

Leaving too, nothing good ever comes of these threads....

I think it is a matter of personal choice what you wear. It should remain so. The state has no business involving itself.

Agree agedknees, I don't really like to see women with their faces covered, but it doesn't mean that I would want to restrict their freedom to choose that style of dress.

I would also (like Eggyallenpoe) be very interested to know what the legal position is here from the point of view of women's human rights and whether the state really can legislate to tell one particular minority what they can and cannot wear.

I personally do not like the face veil and I know that in some countries it was introduced because wealthy landowners and people of the court would just take girls that they like the look of so women started covering up. That is clearly not the case here.

But I think this new law is all part and parcel of the banning minarets brigade. Anyone who was seriously interested in helping oppressed people would not be oppressing them further.

And I find all these arguments of "I just don't like it,makes me uncomfortable" and "I can't imagine why people want to wear it" quite pointless.

No not "well done Belgium". FFS it's up to women what they wear and if they want to cover up or not. All this does is increase the oppression of women.

Totally agree with saadia - anyone who is seriously interested in helping oppressed people would not be oppressing them further.