How many more killed babies do I have to hear about on the news before something gets done about these fighting dogs

[legscrossed]

I feel physically sick.

18 month old girl versus bull mastif.

Hideous

It absolutely petrifies me, we have a baby ourselves.

LOL at LEM's list

Can we have an exception for Maltese Terriers please? If they attack, you can just take the bow out of their hair, thus blinding them.

I don't think that banning or regulating specific breeds is the answer. Two problems with that: Thugs moving on to other breeds, and cross-breeding, plus enforcing it is almost impossible. You would have to train policemen to recognise the breeds which is next to impossible with cross breeds.

Regulating dog ownership and dog breeding is a step in the right direction. And when the dogs are registered, aggressive behaviour, ie bites made compulsory to report. Two strikes and the dog is out.

I have it!!!! its quite simple - akin to tail docking really - when puppies are six months old - remove their teeth

"able to distinguish between a toddler and rat"

Perhaps they can, but why should they care? This is back to "ohh it loves me and has my best interest at heart" isn't it.

I've suggested a line to draw if people really must keep a slave animal for their own amusement.

Any dog too big for you to remove and/or kill with your bare hands if it bites someone is too big.

If it's stronger than you are then you can only stand and watch. Oh and shout 'down! fluffy down!"

No motherjack, that was my head banging the desk in response to people saying that a dog who has never seen a bear 'can tell the difference between a bear and a human'

LOL at the maltese terrier blinded by its fringe.

Sassiemum Quite frankly, it would teach him a lesson if he got nipped. Also, my dog gets shouted at for grumbling at the child if child is not at fault (which he never is!).
Big difference between a grumble for getting kicked in the side by toddler toes and a huge growl and gnashing of teeth (which has never happened btw).

"It'll never happen to you" nyah nyah nyah

Never did I imply that. I am very bloody aware that it could happen to me - of course I am. AWARENESS is key. Never left ont heir own. Always has me in the middle of them when playing supervised.

I maybe over played how rough my son is with dear doggy Mme Lindt! I am of course a VERY responsible owner and NEVER let my son rough my dog up! (reading back it looks like I do) but I really don't! Of course I a very careful, of course of course of course!

Both of my boys mean the world to me.

Onagar, no it's not because they love you it's because you are not their natural prey. They have no innate desire to chase and kill you. Probably because you are not small, furry and you don't scurry off down a hole when they chase you.

I don't think it is in any dogs nature to be a bear baiter. That is something we trained them to do. Dogs are not stoopid they know the bear is more than capable of killing it. A bear is not natural prey to any dog and no no dog is naturally aggressive to a bear. They did however used to be trained to be so.

Dogs are wolves pure and simple, it doesn't matter what they look like, we have spent so long breeding the things into strange mutated shapes (many of which are cruel, leading to illness and untimely deaths) that we have not only forgotten the nature of all dogs but all so why many where created in the first place.

most where created for use in blood sports, hunting, shooting, bear baiting etc but even so they are all pack animals the same as wolves if they are the top of the pack they are a problem, if they are above a child in the pack they are a problem, no dog should ever be treated as anything other then the pack animal they are.

My mum's yorkie is normally very placid etc but the minute ds arrives gets insanely jealous (agree with Ryoko - spoilt/thinks she's top of the pack etc) so I have to watch her like a hawk and keep them well apart. Luckily ds not really bothered as we have a dog ourselves (who is lovely) - I still wouldn't leave them alone though.

The Yorkie thing raises another very important point, pack animals will bite those lower in the pack, theres plenty of people with little nipping dogs who get away with it simply because they are small.

problem is if a big dog simply gives a child a small bite to put it in its place it could cause massive damage but the dog was being a pack animal not aggressive really, but many small dogs are aggressive and no one takes any notice laughing it off unless they bite the face or something.

Ah, I see, Po.

They can tell the difference though - whether they then choose to bite it or not is a whole different argument but they can, they really can. Unthunk your head this minute!

I believe that the pack theory has recently been called into question, when not completely disproved.

dachsund attacked my ds. ds was 2, we went to ladies loo in Germany. I was heavily pregnant at time. Dachsund was in loo with an old lady in furs, dog had a lead on but hideous crone was not holding it. We walked past it, didn't go up to it, the dog went for ds, ripped his trousers and bit him on legs. Bastard animal. Lady shrugged her shoulders, picked up lead and went off. I was in tears. I hate Dachsunds. Ds terrified and only now getting over fear of dogs.

Po
Dachshunds are huuuugely popular with old ladies in Germany. They tend to be very neurotic (both ladies and dogs), spoilt rotten, ill trained and not well walked. Nasty feckers, I hate them. Daphne has been growled and snapped at by few dogs, Dachshunds are one of the few breeds (and Yorkies) who have gone for her.

erm..humans are 'pack animals' that is, we live in social groups with subtle distinctions of role/status...which is why dogs fit in nicely.

and if these people had left a bucket of bleach and the toddler had drowned in it, we'd be saying 'shouldn't they have been more careful' rather than 'lets ban buckets of cleaning fluid'..although i feel rather more culpable in this case 'shouldn't they not have been cruel, stupid twats..'?

incidentally, no-one wants to see an end to the disgusting practices involved in dog-fighting more than your average dog-lover. banning breeds does not help - think about it - they aren't trying to get their dogs KC registered! being part of a 'breed' isn't important....

incidentally MmeLindt, i believe there is already a 'one-strike' law in the UK.

i don't believe dog registration will help at all. laws govern the law-abiding after all.

While we are blaming the dogs, the owners and the breeders (all of whom can be at fault in these situations, IMO) can we also pass some blame onto the Police?

The DDA does not just cover a couple of banned breeds! It also gives the police a lot of power to deal with irresponsible owners who are not in control of their dogs, AND any dog "which could reasonably be perceived as a threat" Unfortunately the POlice don't seem willing to even TRY to enforce any of the powers given to them by this act.

A couple of years ago, a rottie, an akita and a staffy-cross were coming through our woods (privately owned) on a fairly regular basis and appearing in my garden to try to get at my rabbits. That is bad enough, but I have 3 small children, and 2 placid beagles who also frequented the garden. I called the police, who told me there was nothing they could do unless I could find out who owned the dogs (presumably then they won't bother to do anything about your house getting broken into, unless you investigate yourself and find out who did it ) A "helpful" lady at the POlice Station suggested I "put something down for them"! I was as a) I'd just explained that I had small children AND dogs myself and b) it isn't legal!! They then suggested that I catch the dogs (hahahaha!) and phone the dog warden- completely irresponsible advice. I DID phone the dog warden, but he pootled up and then down the street 75 minutes later, without getting out of his car, or even knocking my door.

The police sympathised as I was apparently "scared of dogs"- NO, I am not!! I am a veterinary surgeon with 15 years experience of handling dogs, and I happen to KNOW that 3 status dogs (yes, I DID find out who owned them, someone you definitely wouldn't want to mess with, who lived a good bit away) running as a pack, with no one in control of them, excited by the thought of a bit of rabbit-carnage ARE going to be a danger to small flappy toddlers who might just be playing with said rabbits at the time they came to visit.

Nothing they could do, they said. HE said they weren't his dogs. I say they were. I asked the police if there were three such other dogs living together in the vicinity- they didn't know, but apparently the fact that he said they aren't his makes the law null and void. So if (when) someone DOES get hurt by getting in their way, presumably that defence will still stand. I actually printed out the DDA and told them the measures they could take, but it's "all very complicated" I did all the work- I found out where the dogs lived, I kept a diary of every time they came into my garden. Finally I lost the rag and chased the rottie out one day with a mop (stupid thing to do, but I was getting very frustrated ) WE ended up spending hundreds fencing off a part of our garden that our children and rabbits could be safe in (and it took DH weeks!) It seems like the responsibilty is nooones, despite there being laws there to prosecute for a dog being "out of your control"

I can't comment on the particular incident in the OP, but I do know that in previous dog attacks some of the dogs HAVE been reported to th police by concerned citizens and no follow-up has been done. I think the police need to take such incidents more seriously. One of my friends was bitten badly by an unrestrained dog running out of its garden. the Police's attitude was "Oh- do you really want to prosecute?" YES! Because next time it might be a small child's face, rather than her knee.

if these people had left a bucket of bleach and the toddler had drowned in it, we'd be saying 'shouldn't they have been more careful' rather than 'lets ban buckets of cleaning fluid'

Joolyjoolyjoo, agree about the police. I'm not quite sure what the police do these days to pass the time since so many things go on under their noses and you can't get them to act.

Po, that is awful, and I totally understand why you keep a mindful distance of dogs. I used to be terrified of all of them - to the point I would not get out of a car if a yorkshire terrier was passing - I saw my dad getting attacked by a guard dog when I was little and it was not a pretty sight, and evidently had a massive impact on me growing up.

I do hope your son recovers from that, I really do. I had a collie actually set on me in my youth (1975 I believe it was!), in a shared elderly persons communal garden.

Too many dog owners say "my dog wouldn't ....."

Not true.

Anyones dog might!

Threelittleducks 'Quite frankly, it would teach him a lesson if he got nipped. Also, my dog gets shouted at for grumbling at the child if child is not at fault (which he never is!). '

This is a wind up yes ? A 'grumbling' dog, a dog which gets shouted at and a small child who is apportioned blame for his behaviour around a dog. Beggars belief.

My fiances parents have a dog an ex-police dog actually, strange thing is I knew the dog before I met him because I worked at the animal home it was rehabilitated at, didn't meet him there at all fate.

Anyway when he was about 10 he said his parents had two Labradors until they went to the park one day and someones Doberman came running up to them and ripped one of them apart, went for the neck of the other one and badly bit his dads arm (as he was trying to get the thing away).

The owner took his evil dog and pegged it, nothing ever came of it.

My mother hates dogs and doesn't like being anywhere near them because she was bitten on the shoulder by a large dog that walked up behind her when she was walking home from school.

Dogs go for the neck, small ones go for the legs to bring larger animals down so they can go for the neck, it only takes a second for a dog to turn, doesn't matter if you are supervising or not there is nothing you can do in the short time it takes, I get fed up with people saying "oh but I don't leave them unsupervised".

my dog wouldn't ....."

the huge majoriy o dogs go their entore lives without biting anyone. so - in actual fact, when an owner says 'my dog would never' the huge majority of them are right.

i once owned a toothless yorkie - if i said 'he would never bite somone' surely i would be right?

consider the following situation - child goes to feed horse in paddock - horse nips childs hand because child bats it at horse - wouldn't you go back, make sure child held grass in flat open palm to feed horsey? Or would you demand that the horse be put down? Similarly if an abused and abandoned horse kicked a child badly enouh to kill it, wouldn't we say 'oh how awful for someone to let a dear old horse get in that condition? What Terrible people.' I odn't think anyone would be demanding all horses be kept under strict surveillance. Incidentally, more people are killed by hoses than dogs (24 a year in the UK?), which onsidering how many more dogs there are than horses, shows how crap everyone's estimation of risk is.

i have neighbours on each side who have multiple dogs (more than 3 each)

other homes in our small street have dogs, many owners think nothing of letting their dog go running out (for a wee or poo) regardless of whether there are kids around

hence my DC are not allowed out on their own AT ALL - I dare not even let the DC play in our own garden without one of us there immediately to hand, in case the dogs should start snapping and snarling or try to go for each other through our garden

as a child i witnessed a friend bitten on a school trip, by a dog she stroked outside a tea room (yes, partly her fault). when the leader went in and asked who the dog belonged to the reply was that it had never bit anyone before and they would be out when they had finished their meal

only this weekedn a dog ran right up to DD on the beach (age 8 are afraid of dogs, she screamed - which we very very cross with her about), but the owner was a good 100 yds away

irresponsible dog owners make me sick and it is time something serious was done - in fact i would vote for any party saying they would get tough on dog owners

as for the original story in the OP, heartbreaking - that poor 3 yr old who witnessed it.