How many more killed babies do I have to hear about on the news before something gets done about these fighting dogs

[legscrossed]

I feel physically sick.

18 month old girl versus bull mastif.

Hideous

It absolutely petrifies me, we have a baby ourselves.

Labradors and golden retrievers are big enough to kill a child too though.

A jack russel is a small dog but could easily kill a child. Those things are nasty when they get hold of something they perceive to be prey. Luckily they tend to just kill rats and other rodents.

Labs and retrievers rarely kill dogs. They are not bred to be aggressive. There are breeds bred for generations to be as aggressive as possible and yes these breeds should be banned. however the ban is extremely difficult to implement.

Staffs are not bred to be aggressive. Quite the opposite in fact.

GSDs are highly intelligent, loyal dogs often used by the police due to their intelligence. They too are not and have been bred for aggression.

I don't much about Bull Mastiffs but often the bull breeds are gentle, loving people pleasers.

I don't believe any dog is deliberately bred to show aggression towards people.

have not* been bred for aggression.

to my mind the prob seems to be the wrong type of dog (or dog at all) in the hands of the wrong person.

I dont see how you can legislate for that.

Is it that we accept its just an unfortunate side of life that some peoples pets and small children die this way?

Horrific.

Hate these kinds of discussions, but always got to put in my tuppence worth as am so very passionate about it.

I am a dog lover and a dog owner - I have 13 year old Jack Russell. I am also a mother of an 18month old boy who loves his doggy.

My son is very rough with my dog at times - to the point that the dog has a grumble at him - but they love to play together and get on great. Which was a major worry for me when I was pregnant as my dog is like my first baby! They play quite roughly - but the dog himself is very gentle and I NEVER let them play unsupervised. At 18 months my son is still learning boundaries with the dog - i.e, no he can't climb on him, but he can pat him gently. They have such a great relationship and I am relishing this opportunity to teach my ds about respecting animals in the proper way.

My dog is trained, well-socialised, great with people etc, but I would NEVER take it for granted that he would be ok with children. I'm very aware of how quickly it can go from being "aww, look at the cute doggy, give him a pat kids", to "your bastard dog bit my child, I'm getting him put down" (not that I think he would, but if he did, guess who would cop the flack??)

Things do very much need to change in this country.

1. People should be made to think long and hard before getting a dog - prove that they have the time/space etc to give to the dog.
2. Dogs should be licenced, as in the Swiss system - and cases of aggression dealt with on a dog by dog rather than breed basis.
3. Owners should be made to attend classes - we do actually have citizenship classes here which teach dogs to behave properly in public. Basic training would help so much.

Very rarely is it the dog's fault (to repeat what has been already said). Owners of 'bastard devil dugs' often treat their dogs terribly, which is how you get this level of aggression from them - they don't know anything else.

Anyways, said my piece now. Can rage quietly now

'I don't believe any dog is deliberately bred to show aggression towards people.'

Then you're flying in the face of fact.

'My son is very rough with my dog at times - to the point that the dog has a grumble at him - but they love to play together and get on great.'

So the dog knows that he's only allowed to grumble and he's happy not to escalate things into a bite ? And you believe yourself to be a 'responsible' dog owner ?

Beggars belief - it really does. Because it will never ever happen to your child will it ?

So which breeds of dog are deliberately bred to show aggression to people then?

Every dog, whatever the breed has the capacity to bite. However some dogs are innately more aggressive than others.

Our dog has never even growled, not at a child, another dog, anything. She is very friendly and a bit boisterous at times but never ever jumps up at children because I think she knows she could knock them over.

A lot depends upon the dogs physique and their jaws and teeth. Some 'ferocious' looking dogs such boxers have pathetic jaws and teeth. Mastiff types have very powerful jaws.

With the breeding of dogs to make them aggressive, you have to differentiate between the responsible and the irresponsible (nutter) breeders.

Threelittleducks
You are being rather unfair on your dog, imo, by letting your DS be rough with him. You are putting the responsibility for the welfare of your child on an animal and any dog, no matter how lovely can turn nasty. Even if you are in the same room, JR can be very dangerous if they bite children. They are terriers, used to hunting small prey.

Even a dog not bred for agression can be agressive.

Owners are the problem.

I was sat in a park wondering if my ds was bleeding to death facing an angry owner who said "oh it wasn't my dog" when I had clearly seen it sink its teeth into my ds shoulder and shake him.

The owner was cross with me cos I hat hit his dog with a big stick twice to get it away from my kids.

I couldn't follow him and get registration etc as we were waiting for an ambulance for seriously injured ds.

I did call police but they couldn't find him.

If I ever see that man again I will follow him home and call the police.

Bloody hell weegie. That's awful

Dogs are not innately aggressive towards people. Rodents, yes most terriers. Other dogs, yes, many of the breeds previously used for fighting. But not people.

Due to the appearance and strength of certain breeds they unfortunately attract a certain type of owner. Who by and large do not care for or train them properly. On occasion they actually train them to be aggressive. But his is training, not something that is innate to the breed.

Rescue centers are full of SBT because eejits who want an aggressive dog buy them only to realise what they have accquired is an over grown lap dog who'd rather lick you to death than growl at you. Unfortunately some of the eejits are capable of turning these dogs by showing an inordinate amount of cruelty to them. But any breed could be turned like that.

It was awful. Poor ds is still terrified - he's too scared to go on a "walking" school trip unless I am with him in case he sees a dog. Years later!

I get very on here about people who would never put a dog down, or who say things like "I am suspicious of people who don't like dogs". You wouldn't like dogs either if your very small ds had had to have an operation and get the plastic surgeons in to repair the damage caused through a heavy anorak. He had a blood transfusion and was in hospital for a few days.

I dislike dogs. I dislike irresponsible owners. And I reserve the right to physically protect myself and my family from a dog jumping up at us etc .....

That is terrible, really terrible. I know this sounds a bit pathetic but can I just give you a bit of advice that has worked for us. If your ds sees a dog and is scared (which he will be given his experience), tell him to turn his back on the dog and fold his arms. I would worry that a perfectly nice dog may approach him, your ds may wave his arms, cry etc and the dog may think he's excited and get excited ie bark too. I hope I've not offended you by telling you this but the chances are he will encounter dogs. This may help him to conquer some of the fear.

Sorry I haven't read all the thread so forgive me if this has been said already, but IMO one of the main problems is that they banned pitbulls etc, and then didn't enforce it.

This had the effect of making these dogs desirable. Where I've lived for most of my life (Hackney, London) when I was little there were all kinds of dogs in the park. Now almost every dog is a fighting dog. People sell dogs claiming they are "part-pit" together with papers of other dogs to "prove" a fake non-pit background. They are breeding other types of aggressive dogs with mastiffs, to make bigger dogs. There are some unbelievably monstrous things in the park, many of them accompanied by teenagers.

IMO it is totally irresponsible of the government to legislate against something and then fail to enforce it. It instantly creates a lucrative black market, resulting in actually making the problem worse.

Thanks Joni this is what we have taught him to do (we took advice from a dog trainer as didn't want him to do things to excite a dog!).

He's OK when me or dh are with him, and ok with little dogs. But he understandably freaks out (full blown panic attack - he has diazepam for them!) when he sees a border collie. We have a neighbour with one and have been gradually getting them to spend time together and he can now hold this dog on a lead - I'm so proud of him. Can't stroke yet, but one day he will! Luckily our neighbour is very understanding!

But he's never going to be a dog lover - nor is dd1 who witnessed the attack, but dd2 who was tiny in her pram has no bother with dogs.

I never liked them much anyway (the smell! Wet dog urgh!) but now I just keep away form them.

Weegie, it was me who said about being suspicious of people who dislike dogs, of course i dont include people like you!! You poor things - i am so angry for you

Shiny, sadly, i think that there are dogs that are bred for aggression towards people - thankfully they are banned in this country - i dont mean the pitbull, i can't think of the breeds but i think there are several.

lowrib i think you make an excellent point - the dangerous dogs act is a farce.

I am going to leave the thread now - honest!! I think i am too torn - i love dogs, i love big dogs but i realise that things have got to change - my main concern being the "status" dogs paraded around parks by youths who cannot cope with them.

I do wonder though if dog haters are confined to mumsnet, i walked my two this morning off lead, along the beach, past untold mums with toddlers in buggys - dogs ignored them, the only comments I heard were "oooh, look at the lovely doggies" and people grinning at my rather unusual pair. The only time i have ever encountered negativity about dogs is on here! Really.

Weegie, your ds is so brave holding a dog's lead. Well done him

Weegie
How terrible for your DS, and how brave he is to try to overcome his fear. You must be proud to bursting.

I am very aware that there are children who are frightened of dogs, and if I see a child is scared, I have gone out of my way to avoid going past them, or I pick Daphne up.

We have a little boy at school and he is terrified of dogs, even small fluffy ones like Daphne.

Oh, and I have trained Daphne to turn and sit down with her back to children if they want to pet her and are a bit frightened. They often would like to but are wary of her face/mouth.

Oh gawd LEM I often point at dogs and say to my dcs 'look at those lovely doggies'

Dog owners are to blame for dog haters. Dogs and their owners are not randomly picked on for persecution. It is when your child is knocked over/attacked/steps in dog shit repeatedly that people get wary and fed up. And all of those things have happened to my children in their young lives so far. And I grew up with dogs.

Shiny Dogs bred for aggression over generations are not really going to say 'oh that's a person, I won't show that kind of animal my inbred innate aggression then.