How many more killed babies do I have to hear about on the news before something gets done about these fighting dogs

[legscrossed]

I feel physically sick.

18 month old girl versus bull mastif.

Hideous

It absolutely petrifies me, we have a baby ourselves.

MmeLindt that sounds brilliant

I live in an area of London where there are more and more teenage boys, and young kids sometimes, with these dogs. They are rarely on leads and under control. It scares me witless as I have two DC's, one scooting, walking and running and one in a buggy.
It is not just a matter of people with dogs in the family, but for people like me walking down the street, seeing a 15 year old with a dog off the lead and having to cross the road as I am scared that they will attack my children.
I couldn't give two hoots whether it's the dogs fault or not, but people having these bloody animals as status symbols is now affecting me living my life with my kids.
I know people have a zombie plan, I have a 'dog attacking my child' plan .

MMeLindt, you have posted those rules before and I stil think they are perfect. yes they would probably cost to implement but they woudl work.
Have there been any dog attacks since they were brought in?

Zombie plan?

Not sure, Jack. I think I searched for statistics on the thread back when I posted it. Will check.

Thing is, it does not stop people who want to have a mastiff or a pit bull having one, but it makes it pretty inconvenient for them. And they have a "two strikes and you are out" rule for dogs that have bitten, as far as I remember so a dog that has behaved aggressively will not get away with it.

Sadly, often the first time a dog like this bites, it is a fatal incident.

Yeah for when Zombies attack the earth - no?
But yes really that's the bit of my post to pick up on

oh for crying out loud!!!! Poor little girl, poor traumatised family. Don't know anymore than that.

Bull mastifs are huge powerful dogs, but more more of a "killing machine" than a labrador in those circs.

I met me friends bull mastif the other week, having been totally uninterested in the breed - I am totally converted - she is just the softest dog i have ever ever met. She will be having puppies next year and my name is on the list. My DD is four - so shoot me! I have years of dog experience and i am experienced to know a dog that is safe with children and i have to say that i was bowled over by her. My friend has teenage children so no direct evidence, other than my experience (ex vet nurse) and instinct. My DP wants an american bulldog - stunning dogs, we will NOT be getting one, despite their reputation as a dog that is good with children.

I have had rotweillers, chihuahuas and now have a jack russel, among countless cross breeds.

As a veterinary nurse i was bitten in the face by a golden retriver, bitten more times than i care to remember by poodles and terriers and had to put more than one labardor down for aggression.

How many more of these reactionary posts am I going to have to read before people understand that it is NOT THE FUCKING DOGS FAULT. It is the fault of the owners and breeders.

I cannot begin to imagine what that poor family must be going through, however, as the dog's owner is on a manslaughter charge i think there is more to this than a family pet gone bad. I assume that the dog has a questionable history.

The only way that you can ensure there are no dog bites is to have no dogs - and that would be very sad. I don't know how to legislate against idiot dog owners - but it definately needs addressing

Yes, LEMneedsaholiday - we're always raeading about chihauhaus savaging toddlers aren't we?

IwishIwerewitty
That is so sad, that you cannot walk the streats without being frightened for your children.

We had a long discussion on here about the Swiss laws, I recall.

Part of the problem is of course, as LEM says, you can outlaw certain breeds but what about cross breeds?

Or friendly, lovable family dogs (retrievers or labs) who for whatever reason turn nasty and suddenly bite.

Dogs are unpredictable. I would not leave a small baby in a room with a dog, no matter how placid and loving the dog normally is.

Even Daphne.

IwishIwerewitty I understood the rest of your post and I didn't understand that bit. Shall reserve questions in future

Nancy66 Sun 18-Apr-10 11:03:06
the title expresses the grim reality of the situation.

No, not all staffs, pitbulls, rottweilers etc are dangerous - but they all have the potential to be because they are stronger with a more aggressive temperament.

You'd have to be thick as shit, lowlife to keep these dogs around children - which most of these people are.

The staffy is only one of 2 breeds reccommended by the kennel club to have with childrenhere.

According to the BBC news website the dog is not a Mastiff but is an American Bulldog. Not that the breed type matters.

Not all owners of Pit Bulls/Mastiffs are "Thick as shit lowlife" or "Chavscum" but as an owner of four dogs, two of which are toy breeds and the others are a Staffordshire Bull Terrier and a Dogue De Bordeaux (French Mastiff) I agree that more must be done to make sure that children are protected when around dogs.

I think that if you have certains breeds such as a Pit Bull, Doberman, Rotweiler, Mastiff etc then the dog must be registered/licensed, microchipped and trained by a licensed trainer who is familiar with these strong breeds. I'd be happy to carry the licenses for my dogs with me every time I took them out in case of a spot check.

I realise that registering does push breeding underground but at least there would be a punitive sentence for anyone caught with the dogs.

Mumblechum? I have owned two rotweillers - one was trained at organised training class, to a high level of obedience, we did it for fun. I dont actually need to be taught how to train my dog and anyeone who needs teaching shouldnt own a mastiff type dog. My second rottie was a "problem dog" which we got from Battersea dogs home - i have told his story on here many times, but we trained him ourselves, he didn't respond to organise classes.

My husband has his own business, I have a PhD - im not sure if i fit your "underclass" image.

I do know what you are saying though, they are the chav breed of choice - which is very sad because by nature most mastiff breeds are herding dogs with a very even temprement. Staffs on the other hand...........loons! Each and every one of them, which often goes well with boysterous children.

This debate will rage and rage, it was German shepherds when i was young and im still wary of them now, but they are highly strung dogs which can be nervous aggresive.

LEM- why do you think that having legislation means it's the 'dog's fault?'

Do you think people campaigning for gun and knife legislation blame the guns or knives? Of course not, the blame lies with their owner. But legislation refers to the guns and knives themselves. Why is this different?

I cannot see where anyone on this thread has 'blamed the dog'; please show where this has happened.

The problem with laws and rules, is it won't stop cases like this - it's almost impossible to stop parental stupidity or negligence that results in a dead child.

Bubbles4 what planet are you on? You say, 'You'd have to be thick as shit, lowlife to keep these dogs around children'. I am not lowlife, nor as thick as shit, thank you very much.

Nancy - that is a ridiculous argument and quite besides the point. It is about responsible breeding, responsible ownership and COMMON SENSE! Whatever the breed.

Soryy, Bubbles, I was blaming you for a comment made by Nancy!

Thank you BuzzingNoise,I have a staffy and like you I am neither thick as shit or a low life.

I hate all the presumptions made about these dogs by people who have no actual knowledge of the breed.

it is awful isn't it? this is in my town and it really makes me feel ill.
these things ALWAYS make me feel ill, but the fact that it's so close to home has really made me thinki about it all

according to locals the guy who owned the dogs was well respected and looked after them well, not the kind of person who just owns dogs so he looks "big" iyswim?
The child was in the kitchen with her sister, mother and grandmother when it happened... so not alone or anything.

it's just horrendous

I think it does matter what type of breed it is, we had a yorkshire terrier and am alsatian growing up both very well trained gentle dogs.

Next doors dog was a jack russel, still a little one, and would nip if it got too excited, difference is it would not be able to put its jaws around a childs arm or head and cause serious damage.

I welcome legislation against owners and there has been plenty of hysteria on this and other threads about specific breeds, which as a past rotweiller owner (YES i had a small child with my rottie) i find offensive.

I welcomed the dangerous dogs act in theory but it was poorly administered and caused much distress and suffering. Blatantly it hasn't worked, a small list of dogs were banned, so the "chavscum" have moved on to another set of "status" dogs. Where does it end? This is why i feel that legislation must not be about the dogs, it needs to be about the owners. An angry labrador can be equally intimidating as an angry rottie - believe me, i know! So, how long before those are the dogs of choice?

I certainly think that no one under the age of 18 should be allowed to walk a dog unsupervised. I have seen it so many times when children are walking dogs and there is an incident with other dogs and they dont know how to handle it. OF course a lot of the "status" dogs are paraded around parks by teenagers trying to look hard. Thats a start. Bring back the dog licence, but im not sure how that will work - will you only get a dog licence if you don't own a burberry cap or track suit?

I totally see the logic of saying that it's about responsible breeding and ownership etc.

that's all very well but, unfortunately, the sort of people who tend to own certain breeds are also the type who don't give a fuck about responsible handling.

so what do we do then? Just take out chances.

Where I live in Sw london it's absolutely awash with staffs - and I would say that some of them are probably the illegal pitbull breed...about 99 out of 100 are owned by the sort of person I would cross the road to get away from. they are not going to chip their dog, buy a licence, attend dog training classes or anything else - because they don't give a fuck.

Nancy
If there is legislation to force dog owners into registering, microchipping and training their dogs it will make a difference.

The problem is, and that is what the vet here in Switzerland said, it is so difficult to police.

Unless the police are really on the ball and use man hours (which they just do not have) to check dogs then it is not going to do much good.

Switzerland is more difficult to police because we have open borders of course so now way of knowing if an unregistered staffie/pit bull is brought into the country.