Frankie Boyle on Down Syndrome - horrific

[Lymond]

interesting blog post from a mother of a DS daughter who was blasted by a 5-10 minute diatribe containing all the old stereotypes about people with DS at a Frakie Boyle show. I'm turning off any TV show he's on in future.

blog here

Grauniad article on it here

All I'm saying 2shoes is that FB isn't really doing anything new. SN people have always been a target for comedians, so have old people, fat people, thick people, Catholics, Muslims, chavs,.....I could go on for hours....you can't ban it all...

Everyone knows what Frankie Boyle is like- yes he is offensive. That is the role he plays on stage. Does he really believe everything he says on stage- of course not. It is an 'act'. Don't book tickets to go and see him if you are easily offended. I think he is very clever and often funny - not all the time but that is his style. I agree with an earlier poster, it would be interesting to see exactly what jokes that mum had laughed at before he touched a nerve with her.

why not?
why can't taking the piss out of vunerable people be banned??
don't you realise there is a knock on affect?
you lol at a sick joke and your kids think oh that is ok, next time they see a disabled person thsy take the piss.......and on it goes

2shoes, I understand that this subject is close to your heart, but you can't ban it, it's impossible really....where does it end..? SN is a grey area, is a thick, fat Muslim classed as SN..?

everything would be off limits....then we would have nothing....a world full of nothingness....

now your just being daft...

No I'm not, you are...you can't ban jokes about downs syndrome without banning jokes about anyone who may have a special need...and that could be anything form dyslexia to being a bit thick..to having a limp..... it is a grey area and you need to lighten up..

"mayorquimby - are you seriously saying we should thank him for mocking people with disabilities as otherwise bigoted people will mock them in an even worse manner? Lets all go around doing it then, so they won't bother eh?"

No that's not what I said at all. My point was to do with the subjectivity and brutality of comedy. My point throughout this thread is that in a lot of cases one persons satire and public commentary is anothers basement level bigotry, hence my referencing chris morris,ed burns, ricky gervais and jimmy carr. I said earlier in the thread that I didn't find what FB said funny and am not a huge fan of his but I'd defend his right to say it in a private show and the right of people who want to go and see him say such things (like the woman who blogged this had actively looked forward to doing so) and enjoy it.
I don't see how you got that we should be thanking him for salgging off disability from what I posted, especially as I was talking about Jimmy Carr and not FB, and I presented the possible arguments against his act and accepted their validity if that was how you interpreted his act. I don't interpret his act as being based on finding the subjects about which he jokes funny in themselves but as being based the tabboos and public perception of them. So I don't think of a lot of his jokes as being "racist jokes" but more "jokes based on race" iyswim. So in the same way Chris Morris' paedogeddan was not based upon paedophilia itself being funny but based a funny show around paedophilia and the hypocrisy and public reactions to it.Of course I accept others right to interpret this as being disgusting/disgraceful etc. but what does annoy me is the way which people who criticise do so in absolute terms and statements of certainty
I think what FB said is beyond the pale and I would never go to see him. However I have seen on this forum before people saying things like "I don't think paedophilia/rape/race/disability should ever be a joking topic" and I fundamentally disagree with that. Either everything is fair game for comedy and commentary or nothing is. Of course people have the right to be offended and complain but not to silence.

"why can't taking the piss out of vunerable people be banned??"

Because who is the judge of who needs protection? To what extent do you curtail a persons right of expression to protect those who seem vulnerable?
We have a long history of political satire in the british isles, what of politicians with special needs or from a minority background are they protected? Even if the joke does not focus on their disbility or ethnicity many may still claim that any attacks on their political decisions are simply veiled racism and so should be banned.
It's just impossible and unenforcable but more than that it's an infringement of peoples rights to expression.

good post at 12:34, quimby, I completely agree.

so (question here) why is it deemed not ok to make"jokes" about womannow(like bernard wotsit used to) or racist jokes?

oh just before I hide this thread
I just have to say that I live in dread of the next generation, brought up by people who laugh at these jokes.

Hi 2shoes.I am v much for freedom of speech but in this case I do feel FB has crossed a line.People with SN and their parents and carers fight every day to change society and the way we all think in order to make things more inclusive and this just holds that back no matter what way you look at it.

mayorquimby - sorry, but I did interpret this sentence :

"If you dislike him you are going to pan him for doing lowest common denominator facile shock material to equally bigotted morons who, having been deprived of the victorian freakshow (although C4's cutting edge series does a good line in public interest/lets all stare at a freak documentries), need a new socially acceptable medium through whioch to mock those who are different or in the minority"

to mean that, sorry if that is not what you intended to say (am at work so skim reading)

Jokes about women..? do you know anything about FB..?...lol

As for racist jokes...they are still out there, and being said on TV, I could tell you a few if you like.

"mayorquimby - sorry, but I did interpret this sentence :

"If you dislike him you are going to pan him for doing lowest common denominator facile shock material to equally bigotted morons who, having been deprived of the victorian freakshow (although C4's cutting edge series does a good line in public interest/lets all stare at a freak documentries), need a new socially acceptable medium through whioch to mock those who are different or in the minority"

to mean that, sorry if that is not what you intended to say (am at work so skim reading) "

No worries, my intent there was to show an alternative intepretation (to my own which would view Jimmy Carr as satirical) which is equally valid to my own. The point was once again to highlight the subjectivity of comedy and how two people could see the same comedian and come to 2 totally different but logical conclusions which could be supported by their own arguments.
The bit you quoted was my negative interpretation of Carr, i.e. that he is just a bigot and scumbag who has found the modern socially acceptable outlet for his hate. And that is a valid argument, I can see why people may interpret his act that way. It's all about personal preference.
I was in no way saying that this is what I think he is and should be lauded for it or that such a thing would be good, just that it is how some people see him and that they rightly criticise him on that basis because they believe he is a bigotted bully.

I see now, and agree..sorry again

I think Boyle's jokes were in a different category to all other offensive jokes. To joke about Downs syndrome children dying early is wicked. A mother rang a Radio 5 live talkshow and said that her Downs Syndrome daughter asked her if she would die soon. I bet there are children who have heard about Boyle's jokes and who are taunting Downs Syndrome children using the same lines that Boyle used. There are things that Boyle would never dare say, so it is a pretence that he is standing up for free speech.

"I see now, and agree..sorry again blush"

no worries, you can't tell tone or manner from plain text on a computer screen so I'm often confused by another posters meaning as well.

claig;

There are loads of jokes out there about Muslim terrorists, (most of them told by Muslim comedians).....it's very difficult to draw a line on what is acceptable.

PS;

There was a thread on here earlier titled something like "watching loose women makes me want to smoke crack".....I'm guessing she thought that was funny..????

2 of my cousins have died of drugs o/d.... but I would never complain about people making jokes about druggies.....

making jokes about druggies is not the same as making jokes about disabled children.

Society considers some things beyond the pale. Bernard Manning was sued by members of the audience for some of his jokes. He was removed from TV. But it is interesting that he never made jokes about disabled people or sick children
"in Bernard Manning's logic, jokes about disabled people, or tampons, were unacceptable"
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/3867363.stm

I personally think that making jokes about disabled people is probably the most offensive humour possible.

On the whole I agree with MQ on this thread. Most people would be very offended if they were accused of having no sense of humour.

Yet anyone making a career out of comedy has to be prepared to accept sometimes they might just get it wrong - and the debate that follows is useful in deciding why this is the case. Surely all comedy boils down to taking the mickey out of something (is this offensive to the Michaels out there?) even if it is laughing at your own stupidity? Comedy after all is really a question of self esteem. FB obviously has none!

Riven, can I just make one thing perfectly clear, I do not find jokes about disabled children funny, I like FB but I wouldn't go and see him, he was ok for 10 minutes on mock the week....my sense of humour is a little more sophisticated believe it or not, but I am against censorship (as you know) I think people should be allowed to say pretty much anything they like...

Why do you think FB is so popular...?

It's because people are bored stiff with the politically correct arseholes we've had shoved at us for the past 15 years...

Someone went into meltdown yesterday because I said the word "mental"....is that a banned word, will I be arrested, is that what you want..?

I hate people who are up their own PC arses, they are fucking boring...they should all be locked in a room together to see which one dies of boredom first...

I have laughed at jokes about deaf and blind people...God forgive me...but I laughed alot.