Man shot dead in Stockwell unconnected to terror inquiry

[QueenOfQuotes]

Just seen a ticker on the BBC website saying that

OK been thinking aboout this a lot overnight- partly because I've heard a lot aboout the Harry Stanley case over the years (my Uncle is very involved with the Harry Stanley campiagn and to be honest you can't shut him up about it). The reasons given for shooting this guy was that he was behaving in a suspicious manner. Fast forward 20 years and it terrifies me for ds1- I suspect he won't be out alone, but if he was he would definitely be behaving weirdly and would be unlikely to respond to police commands.

Sooooo I tend to think that holding a table leg isn't a good enough reason to shoot a man, and neither is "behaving suspiciously". The guy grew up in a slum area of Sao paolo apparently where gun crime is rife, he was in Stockewell, men in jeans came towards him waving weaponary, unfortunately his natural survival instinct kicked in -and he ran- with tragic consequences.

I'm not anti police- but this was a bad bad bad mistake. I just hope they don't go in for the cover up a la Harry Stanley.

I havent read all the posts from overnight but if as I can deduce Mummyloves is a Police Officer then she is defending her job (and that of all her colleagues) only the same way the teachers defend theirs, and there have been whole threads about those.

true jampots - but most threads about teachers have had teachers admitting - "yes we sometimes make mistakes" and "no not all teachers are perfect".

Well said Jimjams. I was thinking of ds too. This poor man had a mother who will be grieving for him. What sort of society do we live in where one day I may have to worry about the police executing ds?

It isn't hindsight to say how could they execute an innocent man. Sadly given the history of police shootings it was always a strong possibility. If we are going to have armed security forces shooting people dead in the streets, we'll be burying a lot of innocent people by the time we've finished. Their actions may - may - have been justified if they had real cause to suspect he was an armed suicide bomber. But they didn't actually have much cause to suspect that, did they?

IMO this is down to inteligence not the police at the scene(sp??)

The police who were at stockwell had been told to use the "shooting to stop" method if they came across anyone suspicious during this time.

It has all about it on the link below

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4708373.stm (sorry still canny do links )

let's see if this works for you

marslady cheers flower

Message withdrawn

You're welcome

agree with you totally hmo2.

I have to say that I have just been reading this and really quite shocked by some of Mloves posts. To start with I found it hard to believe she could really be a police officer. I still think she has behaved quite unprofessionally here in places but then - If she has seen all these things she is going to be affected in a major way. I can't imagine being in her position and I thank God I'm not. QoQ, no she is not saying ok, sometimes x and y is wrong, but this isn't normal circumstances. I suspect the police in central london are working their you know whats off atm (one certainly is), Seeing things no person should ever have to see, multiple times - of course this is going to affect them - now this has happened and they are feeling criticised and demoralised by the whole affair, the death of this man is incredibly sad, but turning on the police totally is not the answer atm. We will have to await the investigation. In the mean time I will try and keep an open mind, I will not heap the blame on the police - personally I do think other services were involved - but I don't want to get into this argument again .

As an aside, DP had to attend the scene of a bloke who had ridden at high speed into a brick wall on a motorbike. He had the choice not to look. He is lucky. Some of these officers are having to go around picking body parts up from 7/7 - how horrific could that be?

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But Flossam, I don't think most people on this thread who are asking valid questions are "turning on the police". They're asking valid questions. And Mummyloves' tone indicates that she doesn't think they should.

And I can't stand (as you know! ) this "moral authority" card policemen, teachers, nurses, whatever, use, to stop valid questions and debate. Yes we know they're doing a tough job, yes of course we're grateful to them, yes of course we agree that their wages, conditions and general all-over status and treatment should be better. But that doesn't mean we think they shouldn't be accountable. And most public sector workers would agree with me, I think (I hope!) I just think ML's tone came over as believing that they shouldn't be, which I personally find alarming.

So anyone who asks why an innocent man was executed is 'ignorant', are they? Thank God we still have a few ignorant people left then. Happy to include myself among them.

If our response to terrorism is to create a police state, where anyone who, in the opinion of the forces, 'acts suspiciously' (carrying a table leg or wearing a heavy coat or behaving like Jimjam's ds, maybe) can be gunned down in the street, then we may as well not bother. We'll be creating a terrorist state anyway.

If on the other hand we want to remain a civilised society, maybe ignorant people like me will be allowed to ask how this could happen.

Message withdrawn

Thank you, Edam.

I'm afraid when I heard he was innocent I wasn't even surprised. Shocked and horrified, obviously, but not surprised.

And of course he ran like hell when police with guns were after him.

The police have been known to get the address wrong too, you know.

I don't think that's enough information to justify executing someone. He didn't come out of the house and jump on a tube, they followed him for some distance. The house isn't next door to the tube station, it's in Tulse Hill.

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Er...no, if I were a non-white bloke living in Stockwell I'd leg it. Sorry, stereotyping the police and all but boy I'd leg it.

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I heard it speculated that it was plain clothes SAS officers not the police who shot the poor man.

Either way how was the man to know it was the police waving a gun telling him to stop when they were plain clothes. It is not unusual for criminals to carry guns in this area.

The heavy coat has turned into a fleece

Oh God, a fleece? This gets scarier and scarier. That poor man.

I am still flummoxed that they - reportedly, depending which report you read - let him get on a bus and that was apparently OK.