Should some women who have been raped take responsibility for the attack?

[AgentZigzag]

A survey carried out by the Haven service for rape victims, found that from the 1000 people asked, 71% of women thought the victim should take some responsibility for the attack if they'd got into bed with someone, compared to only 57% of men.

About 15 odd years ago, I spent the night with a bloke, but made it clear beforehand that I didn't want to have sex, and he was fine with this. But in the morning he said to me that I should be glad he's such a nice bloke because he could have raped me at any time needless to say I didn't have anything to do with him again.

It seems that women are less forgiving of the victim, why would that be? Shouldn't rape be unacceptable under any circumstances? Or are there some situations that fall into grey areas, which I suppose is why we have a judicial system to define those boundaries.

yes. Exactly

the two are unrelated.

I was date raped.
I went off with an older guy thinking I was being cool and left myself very vulnerable. Not something I would recommend. I would encourage other women not to do the same.

Butthe rape part was him. All him.

I was foolish but I was not raped because I was foolish. I was raped because he was a rapist.

If you get so drunk you don't really know what you are doing then you (male or female) run the risk of something bad happening. But the most likely bad things to happen are you getting your wallet or bag or ipod nicked, having a witless pointless argument that escalates (because one or more of the participants is off his/her face) to violence, or getting run over because you are too trashed to look out for cars.
So nothing wrong in advising teenagers (and adults) to take it easy on a night out.
But the responsibility for rape is always with the rapist. If you (generic you) think that it's good or even vaguely acceptable) sex when the other person is cringing away from you, lying very still with eyes shut and not responding with any indication of enjoyment, then unless you have pre-negotiated this particular style for your erotic role play you are a stupid and unpleasant human being and a lousy lay.

yes pagwatch , well said.

I 'dealt' with it all a long time ago, my dh and close rl friends were incredible, i have always been very open about it as i know i wasn't to blame so no guilt. Only thing i live with now is that it fucked up my insides, so i couldn't carry to term and ds' disabilities are most probably down to the rapist iyswim. i will never really know tho...

Sadly I am not surprised by this report. A couple of days ago I would have been horrified by it, but having been on this thread I realise how many rape apologists are among us

Actually, that should be

Mabs just terrible. I hope the rapist got a decent prison sentence.

Its just so utterly depressing that people think that anyone apart from the rapist is responsible in any way for a rape.

No wonder so few rapes are reported and even fewer prosecuted.

Mabs and Pagwatch - am so sorry for what you both went through

Worse still if you have communication difficulties and you know you can't report it because no-one's going to believe you/you're told you won't get through the court process . Currently working with the CPS to help them understand why there's probably never been a single successful prosecution of rape/seual assault amongst the autism community but 40% of women on the autism spectrum have been sexually assaulted/raped, according to the research done.

yes Pag - so sorry you went through that, horrendous.

oh FFS. I was raped by my boyfriend when I was 17. We were on a residential course, and all sleeping on mats in a hall, and as it was hot weather I wasn't in my sleeping bag. The idea that it could possibly have been my responsibility angers me. I was fast asleep on my front, and woken by him clambering on to me, pinning me down. he had bruises on his chest from me repeatedly elbowing him, and I couldn't say anything because my face was pressed into the mat. It was bloody terrifying. Funnily enough, all the other men in the room restrained themselves and none of them attempted to rape me, just him.
The next day, when I confronted him, he told me I should have said no.
It has taken me 10 long years to stop having flashbacks, panic attacks, depression, attempting suicide etc etc. And there is no way I could have tried to take him to court - his word against mine? yeah right. So I spent 10 years or so blaming myself, and now other people could blame me too? fabulous.

Sorry, this has wound me up more than I thought it would.

well said pagwatch, and MABS

Thanks all but actually it was a long time ago and I am fine.

arolf, MABs TBF - so sorry this thread/reserach is upsetting.

Amber - I wish that surprised me more but I think people with SN are so vulnerable. It is terrible.

so sorry arolf if it helps you at all, i am 20 years on and,for me, time did help.

time (and lots of counselling!) has helped me enormously, plus having a wonderful fiance who has held me whilst I cried whenever I had a bad day.
The main difference now is that I'm angry rather than frightened!
It's just so grim that women can even be considered responsible for being attacked. If you have your phone in your pocket, and are not waggling it in someone's face, and it's stolen, you're not to blame. But a man (and it is almost always a man) getting through (often) 1 or 2 layers of clothing to rape someone, and suddenly it's the victim's fault. Bloody ridiculous.

it is all crap.

i remember my mum giving me A Talk about not leading men on as they can find it hard to stop once they get going . this was an intelligent woman talking!

Have just read another article on the report which links to this

It doesn't say much about the theory but refers to a fascinating piece of research in which "female and male subjects were told two versions of a story about an interaction between a woman and a man. Both variations were exactly the same, except at the very end the man raped the woman in one and in the other he proposed marriage. In both conditions, both female and male subjects viewed the woman's (identical) actions as inevitably leading to the (very different) results"

interesting Maswera

This is appalling - men have a responsibility too. I once fancied a guy, flirted heavily, he did the same, we went back to his flat from where I called a cab. While I was waiting for the cab we had a bit (well, quite a lot of) a snog and he started to unbuckle my belt. I said 'No', while we were still kissing and he stopped immediately. I really admired him for that - he heard what I said, took it seriously and stopped and we carried on with our snog until the taxi came.

I said no, he stopped, we later went on to have a relationship. Reading the horrific experiences some of you have had I realise how lucky I was to have got a good one! But why can't that be the norm?

I hate this. I can't believe NOTHING ever fucking changes. It infuriates me that anyone other than the rapist would ever be considered culpable.

And they wonder why women feel so scared of reporting rape and that those that do often retract everything before it gets to court.

My friend and I were talking a while ago and she confided in me that she was raped. BUT she didnt call it that and was adamant that she had not been raped.
Her story was this: she was at a party with a guy who she was starting to date. She was 17, he was in his mid twenties. She fell asleep in a bedroom and awoke to the feeling of him pulling her jeans off and climbing on top of her. She even said that even though she didnt like the guy, she dated him for a month just so she would feel better about what had happened--as in, if they were in a relationship then it would have been ok.

I just feel awful for her; that it happend and that she had no-one to talk to at the time and how she'd warped the experience in her head to fit in with what she found easier to accept. I would hate for my daughter to find herself in this situation in x amount of years.

MissM, most men wouldn't dream of taking advantage of a woman, but there are a few rogues who know every trick and know just who to target - the young, those who can't fight back, those who can't report them. That's how they get away with it for years.