Should some women who have been raped take responsibility for the attack?

[AgentZigzag]

A survey carried out by the Haven service for rape victims, found that from the 1000 people asked, 71% of women thought the victim should take some responsibility for the attack if they'd got into bed with someone, compared to only 57% of men.

About 15 odd years ago, I spent the night with a bloke, but made it clear beforehand that I didn't want to have sex, and he was fine with this. But in the morning he said to me that I should be glad he's such a nice bloke because he could have raped me at any time needless to say I didn't have anything to do with him again.

It seems that women are less forgiving of the victim, why would that be? Shouldn't rape be unacceptable under any circumstances? Or are there some situations that fall into grey areas, which I suppose is why we have a judicial system to define those boundaries.

I'd like to see the original research. It's not that I don't believe the findings, would just like to see how the questionnaire was worded (I've googled but can't find it). All very depressing.

But I wonder if many people answered that they thought women have a responsibility to protect themselves, as in if you go out don't get too pissed or dress to provocatively because if there's a nasty rapist out there you may be more obvious a victim for him. And not if you wear a short skirt and get raped you are responsible....iyswim

yeah, I've looked too franke and can't find anything. I do hope (against hope) that the questions were badly worded. Rather that than accept that so many women blame rape victims instead of rapists.

OMG and buried in the Telegraph report of this was "Meanwhile one in three men polled said that didn't think it was rape if they made their partner have sex when they didn't want to" The world seems to be going backwards.

I'd hazard a guess that the "responsibility" does not negate the rapist's culpability but is about taking precautions

If your mate got her car stolen because she left it unlocked with her purse on the seat and the key in the ignition would you think she should have been more careful?

Please let's not make comparisons between rape and theft.....wearing a short skirts or even flashing your breasts is not the same as leaving your car unlocked.

I only jump on this comment as I've heard it twice on the radio today!

Yeah, the idea that a woman wearing sexy clothes is the equivalent of an unlocked car is quite horrid. Brings to mind chastity belts and all that.

Women shouldn't have to think of themselves as possessions at risk of being stolen.

Is it poor reporting of the actual findings? Without knowing what the survey was asking, it's difficult to tell - I'd be amazed if that many people really thought the victim should take some responsibility for the crime.

But - it still all comes down to the general belief that men are poor creatures who cannot control their baser urges, and we have to protect them from themselves by not being provocative etc. Men SHOULD be able to control themselves and they should NEVER get the impression that they have this kind of get-out clause.

Well, I was sexually assaulted a couple of years ago by someone I had known for ages (was a former flatmate). Apparently he had desperately fancied me for years (I never pick up on these things). I went to a party at his flat - was wearing jeans, long sleeved shirt, pretty much covered up. He kept on grabbing me, feeling me up and everything, and as we had been friends for ages at first I thought he was being a bit weird, but then it carried on and he kept on grabbing me.

When I told BF (now no longer BF) she didn't believe me, actually refused to believe me. It wasn't until I got up the nerve to tell another friend (who I was at law school with) that he said "SerenityNow, you know it's sexual assault from Law School. You know it's wrong".

A few years later I discussed this with another friend (gay) who said he'd been sexually assaulted and no one had believed him, as he said if you're gay, people assume that you're always up for it (he's totally not slaggy or anything - very respectable, very sweet and intelligent).

I don't discuss what happened much in RL as most of the time people don't believe you, or try to blame you. I blamed myself for ages, and didn't press charges (I didn't want to ruin this guy's life, but he did throw mine off track for a few months).

and, for someone's future reference - even if you started having sex with someone, but then ask them to stop and they don't, that is still rape.

I wasn't talking about wearing particular clothes.

The OP mentions "getting into bed with someone" is not necessarily taking the best care of yourself "71% of women thought the victim should take some responsibility for the attack if they'd got into bed with someone, compared to only 57% of men."

and as for starting to have sex with someone asking them to stop and they don't being rape well I'm sorry but I would not have sympathy in that situation with anyone - man or woman

What? Seriously....you would think someone deserves to lie there in distress with a man's penis inside of them just because they changed their mind and it's too late to say no....

fucking hell.

OK activate, suppose some innocent young girl consents to getting into bed with some bloke thinking it's going to be all romantic and wonderful - and he uses enormous force and she's in terrible pain/injury during sex and asks him to stop and he doesn't. Still no sympathy?

Activate - I think that that aspect of the law was devised in order to cover couples (or the scenario amberlight mentions). For e.g., a woman and her husband start having sex, but he starts getting carried away and hurts her (thrusting too strongly, so that it bruises her or something) and she asks him to stop and he refuses - that's the situation it's covering.

Or would you prefer a return to the previous position (in UK law until 1992) that once a woman consents by marrying someone, she consents for life, regardless of the circumstances.

I wonder about the research and how the questions were worded. If you came on MN and asked if women should bear some responsibility for being raped, I think the large majority would answer and emphatic [and outraged] No.

So I do wonder about how the questions were worded and who was asked.

It wasn't that I didn't want to have sex with the bloke I went to bed with Ruby, it was that I didn't want to have sex with him on the first night, but I certainly didn't want to do anything after the tosser said that to me!

I find this extremely offensive. 20 years ago i dared to go on a tube train at 8.35pom in the evening alone.

I was brutally raped by a total stranger who got in as carriage emptied.

Was it my fault as i was wearing a vest top and long shorts as it was height of summer?

Exactly PopeSusan
That is the point I was making.

If you ask almost every woman I know
"can a woman bare partial responsibility for a rape" the answer would be absoloutly NO

If you ask
"do you think women should approach an evening out with reasonable caution. Should they try to remain reasonably sober, remain with trusted friends, not use unlicenced cabs etc" the answer would be definately YES

Were the questions designed to link these two in a way that the responders did not intend?

there is a clear difference between being careful or thinking a situation through and being responsible for being raped.

whilst i think it might be fair to think that a given situation may have been unwise to enter into this is completely seperate and distince from a moral responsability.

It has happened to me - wanting to have safe sex on a one night stand and him not wanting to use a condom. I managed to get out of it but it was not easy, and I felt bad about it for ages, stupidly.

Mabs.

sorry Popesusan here but just changing back to old name [ish]

Yes Pag I do wonder.

has anyone used the 'oh but you wouldn't leave your doors and windows open' argument yet?

This news story has annoyed me so much.mabs it is such an insult to women who have been through this and women in general for somwone to think of conducting a bloody survey to try and pass some of the blame to the victims.