The Pope is coming to UK to campaign against equality: Does this make him a respectable leader of faith or a bigot?

[Strix]

What do you think?

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8492597.stm

yawn another catholic-hating thread - it's like a new national pastime.

I'm afraid the 'put the word black in place of gay' argument doesn't work - black is simply a skin colour - gay represents practicing certain acts which the Bible explicitly states are not acceptable.Your argument would indeed work if you replaced the word 'gay' with something else that the Bible clearly states is not acceptable such as 'murder'(ers).

you frequent the popes churches though, you vote with your choice -the pope is the head of the catholic church.

or is it that you want to pick and choice what you like about a religion and disgard what you don't like and ignore those bits.

HG; Yes of course i would allow it...

Listen, I have no problem with homosexuals, my favourite journo, (after Richard Littlejohn) is Matthew Parris....I cried at Brokeback Mountain....I like lily Savage..

I just agree with the pope.....and I agree with him because I am catholic and he is my leader.....all we want is to keep our faith, we don't want to kill homosexuals.....

This is getting blown out of all proportion...

So they're allowed in hospitals, but not schools or churches? Is that right?

Has anyone pointed out that the Pope is simply wanting to retain the power not to place gays in positions of power within his own Catholic organisations?

Ivykaty - although I personally do not believe in god and am not a member of any religion, I do not see the problem with Catholics saying that they have faith and believe in Catholic teaching whilst disagreeing with the pope. All they are saying is that they don't like the current leader. He is just one man. He may be the leader now, but so what? He won't last forever. And changes take time. As someone else pointed out, it's not such a long time since homosexuality was illegal in the UK. Society has moved on from that - the Catholic Church may very well move on too - it just takes a long time.

sasamaxx

I need your help. Can you please tell me exactly where in the Bible it saysHomosexuality is a sin. I know it may not be written like that but I really would like to know so I can look it up myself.

Thanks

"which the Bible explicitly states are not acceptable"

Where's that then? I thought we had been through this already and established that there is no evidence that Jesus said any such thing.

Topher40 - Genesis - the Sodomites - I'll look it up when I get a chance

HG;

Yes, I suppose that is what I'm saying.

Would the black police association have a white man as their spokesperson..?......no, because a white person isn't black

Would the disabled olympic team let Usain Bolt run for them..?.....no, because he isn't disabled...

Do you see what I'm saying...?

The catholic church do not think homosexuality is right....therefore, they cannot have openly gay priests working for them and representing them....

If the Pope came over to the UK and told us all to kill everyone with ginger hair or he was inciting racial hatred (or hatred of any other kind) then I definitely would leave the church but he hasn't actually done that ..

the church (see links below) is questioning an EU directive on the grounds that it might interfere with the rights of various Catholic organisations to carry out/or practice their individual beliefs ..

I DO NOT happen to agree with it at all - I think it is the thin end of the wedge and contrary to employment law - and there is a huge element of hypocrisy in all this because as we all know, there are in reality many Catholic (and Anglican) priests who are homosexual themselves ...

I also dislike the continuing emphasis on sexuality and the berating of love between two people, when there are, imo far more important things to worry about such as issues of greed, social justice, war etc

However, that doesn't stop me practising my faith which, as Rhubarb says, means sitting down with your fellow human beings at mass every week and trying (more often than not very unsuccessfully indeed) to work on ourselves as people and follow Christ's example.

Does that make sense??

So are they allowed to be teachers in CoE schools (but not catholic)?

My friends church (CoE) has a gay vicar. I would thinkif you can be vicar, you can work at the school.

Topher40: Genesis 18-19 describe the destruction of Sodom.

Samaxx, whether or not organisations are Catholic, the argument is that they should be subject to the laws of the land in the same way as Hindus are not allowed to practise open air cremation or Muslims are not allowed to marry more than one wife.

Yes, of course gay/lesbians should be able to work in Catholic schools but where on any application form does it ask, 'what is your sexuality?'

Have a feeling that it will end up being, 'don't ask, don't tell' and may take a generation before people can be openly gay in a Church environment.

"I'm afraid the 'put the word black in place of gay' argument doesn't work - black is simply a skin colour - gay represents practicing certain acts which the Bible explicitly states are not acceptable.Your argument would indeed work if you replaced the word 'gay' with something else that the Bible clearly states is not acceptable such as 'murder'(ers)."

The Bible does not "clearly state" that homosexuality is a sin, it's a point of much debate.

However it is pretty clear about the ten commandments.

But the Catholic Church doesn't want to be able to ignore the law regarding adulterers, liars or people who work on Sunday.

Likewise the Bible is pretty clear that sex belongs in marriage.

But the Catholic Church doesn't want to be able ignore the law regarding people who live in sin.

The Catholic Church itself is very clear on it's stance on contraception.

But it doesn't want to be able ignore the law regarding people who use it.

Among all those sins and sinners the Church wants to ignore the law on one very particular issue, homosexuality.

And that is, to say the least, curious.

IvyKaty, I sense a lot of hostility in your posts, why is that?

If the church you belong to is corrupt you can either leave it or you can rattle cages and protest and yell. Other likeminded people may join you and between you who knows what you can achieve?

You don't pick and choose which bits of religion you have and which don't. It would help if you knew a little bit more about religion.

Catholicism in its purest form came when Jesus handed over the reigns to Peter and made him Head of the Church. Unfortunately since then, esp during Constantine's reign, the church was changed. This is where the catachism came in. The church set out regulations that it recommended its members follow in order to fully participate in catholic life.

I do not follow a lot of those guidelines. That does not make me any less a catholic. I believe I'm a better catholic than the men who came up with the guidelines.

The catholic faith dictates how I live my life, it is a part of my being. It is part of my personality. You are asking me to walk away from a large part of who I am as a person.

I would much rather fight from within and call for change. I know I'm not alone in this. This Pope may just be the final straw for a lot of catholics, some will vote with their feet and others will protest and yell. I'm a protester by nature.

Topher40: there are further passages in St Paul's letters to the Corinthians and The Romans - I'll happily look these up if you would like these references too.

BadgersPaws, I think my last post also answers your question.

If you quit then what would you do? Join another party those ideals you may not adhere to? Who are just as corrupt? Or would you just not vote? If the Labour Party still reflected your ideals at heart, but you could see that the leader and his cohorts were adding new rules and regulations that you didn't agree with, would it not be better to protest and shout? Gather others and stage mass protests? Tell the world that not all Labour supporters are bigots?

"Genesis 18-19 describe the destruction of Sodom."

This being the same Sodom where nice Mr Lot offered his daughters to the mob to do with as they pleased?

Funny how the lesson from that that some people see is that homosexuality is wrong and not that it's OK to throw women to a baying mob.

sasamaxx
Genesis 18-19 describe the destruction of Sodom.
Thanks. Just had a read and all i can find is a reference to unnatural acts, so can you expound on this for me.