Akmal shaikh

[thehappyprince]

Just think it's desperately sad he is going to be executed within hours for a crime committed apparently due to psychotic beliefs from bipolar disorder. Wish there was some way for him to get clemency.

"I have had experience of both mental illness and class A drug addiction in my family, thanks, which might be why I appear to be both more knowledgable, and more compassionate, than you on both subjects. I think I might handle a child's drug addiction better than you would handle their mental illness. Just a hunch."

Really, my daughters autistic, my son has ocd and has episodes of psycosis. My best friend has been institutionalised six times because of her bi-polar and as she says there's no way even at her most 'happy' time (as she likes to call it) she could be persuaded that someone was going to make her a 'pop star'.

I grew up in a sink hole estate in london, five out of the six of my school friends are dead due to drug use (one believed he could fly and tried it). You walk into a room see your best friend on the floor with a needle sticking out of their arm, pull the needle out clear the vomit from their throat and try to keep them alive while your waiting for an bloody ambulance which didn't get there in time and then we'll talk about being knowledgable.

I don't give a shit if this guy was a saint, he had the stash he paid the price end of story.

I don't get it Atlantis. The death penalty doesn't deter people from carrying out crimes like this.

Had it been a white middle class boy or girl in a 'gets led astray' story, I can guarantee you the Daily Mail would have directed their coverage to take a completely different angle. Look at those 2 (were they girls? think they were) who claimed fraudulently on insurance in South America - 2 little rich girls who got off their crimes suddenly on a technicality - you can't tell me no-one stepped in to sort that one out.

Instead of anger at this man who was used, there should be anger at the countries who produce these drugs, not this sad man (and others) who get used in their grand plan.

I am genuinely torn on this tbh.

I am constantly struck by the way in which people seem to be quick to jump to the defence of any Britain being executed in a foreign country where they have broken the law, and where people seem to think that government should become involved purely on the basis that they are British. Also the defence that they were conned/tricked/unaware of what they were doing seems to be offered up on an all too regular basis.

The fact remains that this man was guilty of drug smuggling in a country where the punishment for drug smuggling is the death penalty. Perhaps he was conned, perhaps he wasn't. Perhaps he was mentally ill, perhaps he wasnt. (we only have media reports on this).

it could be argued that because of his aledged mental illness he could not be held responsible for his actions and should have been granted clemency, (although do people then also believe he should be absolved of the crime and set free?). But then perhaps it could also be argued that someone who has a mental illness that means they cannot be held responsible for their actions should be more closely supervised to ensure they cannot commit actions for which they cannot be held responsible. Held in secure units perhaps? Refused passports so they cannot leave the country? But if the government did that there would be outcry over human rights.

So where do we draw the line? Either people are responsible for their actions and need to face up to the consequences of what they have done, or if they're not able to be responsible they should be more closely controled/supervised to ensure they do not end up in situations like this one.

How lovely all that must have been for you.

And if you could now deal with the fact that you have defamed this man by claiming that he has a criminal record (including crimes against women) when he in fact doesn't?

" I don't get it Atlantis. The death penalty doesn't deter people from carrying out crimes like this."

No but it makes other think before doing it themselves. If executing one makes another one, two or three decide the price of getting caught is too high then thats millions of pounds of drugs that didn't get muled into that country.

" I can guarantee you the Daily Mail would have directed their coverage to take a completely different angle. "

The daily mail have actually been supporting this man and his family throughout the case.

"Instead of anger at this man who was used, there should be anger at the countries who produce these drugs, not this sad man (and others) who get used in their grand plan."

I have enough anger to go around.

I know someone who has psychotic and manic episodes. When he's ill he belives that the adverts on the side of buses are talking to him: he could sure as shit be persuaded that someone was going to make him a pop star. His illness sounds completely plausible to me and this is yet another shocking example of China's complete disregard for human rights.

Georgi, was D Miliband at Copenhagen? Wasn't that the Ed Miller Band?

Excellent post Wannabe

I don't understand the outrage simply because this man happened to have British nationality. If, the same man had Chinese nationality it would not have caused a stir here.

Smacks of British colonialism to me - how very dare those uncivilised Chinese subject Brits to the same penalties and laws as their own natives.

"How lovely all that must have been for you. "

Geez you really are a piece of work aren't you ? Crying into your prada handbag because some mule got put to sleep and yet no compassion for five decent human beings who lost their life to drugs.

I wonder if you show that much compassion to your children or maybe your too busy to deal with them as your all caught up in the 'bad' Chinese doing 'evil' things to this 'poor' man.

Get over yourself, go buy another handbag and then you'll feel better.

then you don't understand the story Avril

this isn't simply because he's British - it's because he is mentally unwell and even under Chinese law, had the right to a different sentence because of that fact

" And if you could now deal with the fact that you have defamed this man by claiming that he has a criminal record (including crimes against women) when he in fact doesn't?"

Well he's dead so I guess he's not too worried what anyone says about him now. But he's a drugs mule and as such his 'character' isn't really in question is it, he's a criminal.

Oh yes, you just caught me with your last post on my way out to buy another Prada handbag, how insightful of you, how did you guess? Silly me for attempting to engage in a serious issue, I'll trot off back to Kensington High Sreet.

While I'm doing that, I suggest you pop off back to the Daily Mail and read some of the hate filled bile there. Much more your scene.

so why did your friends all do drugs then atlantis?

you can't take one person's experience of bipolar and think everyone suffers the same. Doesn't work that way.

And the Daily Mail doesn't do supportive, don't make me laugh.

Chinese disidents are regularly executed or imprisoned for their beliefs, and if you read the 'right' papers or news sources you'll see that that there is a constant rumble of protest about it in the UK and in other countries. It's true that most British people only pay attention when another Brit is affected, but that's human nature I suppose - most British people don't pay attention to international affairs, full stop.

WannaBe, re. your point about how to deal with the issue of mental illness and responsibility - it's a very difficult issue, but one thing I would say is that the mental health services for people with acute illnesses in the UK are stretched beyond breaking point. If MHS users received the care and treatment that they ought to receive, it would be a good start.

I understand that the British Embassy in China was unable to find any documentary evidence to support claims of mental illness, there was nothing in his medical records to suggest it.

We don't know for a fact whether he was or wasn't mentally ill. Criminals do pretend to be mentally ill.

"he's a drugs mule and as such his 'character' isn't really in question is it, he's a criminal"

Oh absolutely. You can say whatever you like about anyone who has a criminal record then. In that case it would be absolutely fine for example to call a man a paedophile because he has a speeding ticket. What brilliant logic you apply to your arguments.

Well, there are parallels. What about those accused/convicted of drug smuggling in Thailand where there is also the death penalty? The UK government has negotiated pardons and in some instances for the jail sentence to be carried out in the UK.

Atlantis your 'chesnut' comment is quite sad.

I work in a Medium Secure Unit for Women who have commited offences and who have significant mental health problems. Its sad to think that in this day and age people make ridiculous, ignorant comments about mental illness.

"Atlantis your 'chesnut' comment is quite sad.

I work in a Medium Secure Unit for Women who have commited offences and who have significant mental health problems. Its sad to think that in this day and age people make ridiculous, ignorant comments about mental illness."

I have axe to grind with people who are truely mentally ill, I do however have an axe to grind with people who 'claim' to be mentally ill once they have been caught committing a crime, hence the 'chestnut' comment. As has been said there is no proof this man was mentally ill, they used it as a defence.

"In that case it would be absolutely fine for example to call a man a paedophile because he has a speeding ticket."

don't be an idiot, take the day off. It is arguements like that which stiffles debate in this country, if you want to be taken seriously then act like an adult.

"I have axe to grind with people who are truely mentally ill,"

should read 'no' axe to grind.

I'm taking your argument to it's logical conclusion. You made false and (if he were alive) slanderous claims about this man having a criminal record, and then when asked to withdraw them said it didn't matter anyway because he (now) has a criminal record. I compltely agree that the argument is idiotic. I'm glad you now admit this.

I'm sure tiredemma would agree that in her experience many many offenders do not get a proper diagnosis of their mental health problems until they are in the criminal justice system. Which would appear to be this man's situation. Unfortunately for him it happened in China, not somewhere where someone like tiredemma could help him.

not sure personal insults on either side are helpful to the discussion.

ultimately people are entitled to their opinions, and neither opinion is necessarily wrong. This man was not proven to be mentally ill, he may or may not have been. And people do use mentall illness as an excuse to get away with crime purely because it is so emotive.

I don't know what I think of this particular case if I'm honest. Generally my view is that if people are stupid enough to commit crimes in these countries where the penalties are severe then they deserve all they get and I have little sympathy for them. there are enough of these cases reported in the news that people know what they're up against if they get caught.

Having said that it does seem on the surface that the circumstances surrounding this particular case were dodgy to say the least. But it could also be queried where his family were in the first place, and why he was not receiving support from them and they didn't seem to appear on the scene until he was already in trouble.

According to a report on the radio he was living as a homeless person in poland when this all came about. So where were his family then? Perhaps if they'd been a bit more involved in the first place it would never have come to this.

Oh, even if he did 'pretend' to be mentally ill, he would have been in a Chinese prison for the rest of his life. Hardly the easy option.

no but if he'd pretended then the punishment would be deserved..

you can't just stop a mentally ill person living a life though wannabe

the only way to stop someone doing what they want is to get them sectioned and it's not that easy - think there has to be some element of potential harm to themselves or others. Doctors take it v seriously and won't just do it to stop someone travelling. There are so few mental health beds in hospital anyway that even if he had been sectioned, I'm not sure how long he would have been kept in.

The help for mentally ill people in this country is seriously underfunded and under resourced. As is the help for drug addicts.

Many many mental health problems are undiagnosed due to stigma of suffering from one (either because the person themselves is too frightened to go for help or the family does not wish to make it a matter known to the authorities for fear of what might happen). Bipolar disorder can be particularly tricky because it can seem to come in phases where you 'feel' quite well for periods of time.