The sad case of Meredith Kercher

[FreeGeorgeJackson]

I feel for her parents. The trial seems to have gone on for ages doenst it?
I cant see ( form what i read) how kNox will get off.

Been following this thread with interest. having read many of the links, I still have no firm opinion about her guilt or innocence. Miscarriage of justice or correct guilty verdict? The arguments seem equally compelling/equally ambiguous

Dittany, I also saw that about the essay competition she won in prison. I thought it was interesting. It doesn?t indicate guilt, but if she is guilty it does seem like an allegory for the murder, I agree. If she's innocent, at the very least it's a very odd/insensitive story to write.

"dittany - what kind of reasoned argument is that? RS was photographed with pink fluid. Wow - he must be an evil killer then!"

OMG! I take it from this response that someone has linked to the photo of Sollecito in fancy dress as if it's in some way significant to the crime or the evidence?

now that's scraping the barrel

"He didn't however write an allegorical essay about the murder. Amanda did"

she wrote it about the murder ? Really!?

"Scientific evidence, although it's very important, isn't the only thing that convicts people" It is still really important that the correct procedures are followed

"There is also witness evidence, circumstantial evidence, alibis (or lack of them) etc,"

much of which was inconsistant and many of the witnesses took months to come forward. When they did many went to the press before they went to the police. The Circumstantial evidence is really not much good.

"But I dont think it was the weird behaviour that brought the investigative gaze upon them" apparently it was the way Knox wiggled her hips and the fact that she was eating pizza. Just two of the ridiculous things the prosecution said made them suspect she was guilty before any DNA evidence had even been studied.

interesting scientific opinion-

It is not scientific that if the floor was cleaned that some prints lit up and others have vanished and did not light up. This is not logical and doesn't make sense. either all prints lit up or no prints lit up. That leads me to the conclusion that the prints lit up with Luminol have nothing to do with this case and are the reaction of something else.

If there was a "clean up" it would have done two things, smudged the prints 100% and left just about ZERO iron for reaction with luminol. The shape of the foot would have disappeared and it would have looked nothing. If there was a cleaning you would not see toes, heal shape or anything. It would look like nothing but smears.
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Their is a big difference between mopping and spot cleaning. Moping involves adding bleach to a pail and applying the pail to the floor. You mop and than you soak up the solution. You get a fresh pail and pull solution off floor. Here is the problem, if you did this you would never get 100% of the bleach off the floor. All you would be doing is diluting the solution further. That means that the entire floor from door to bathroom should turn blue. It didn't, which means something else is going on. That proves to me that no one used bleach to mop the floor.
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With spot cleaning you would remove 99% of the blood with say towel or toilet paper. What is left would easily be pulled off tile with soap and water.

Whether Rudy spot cleaned a few prints is possible but nothing more than speculation. I do not know. It sounds entirely possible from that paragraph I posted form the Scientific article. It is possible that Rudy had a bloody foot put a sock on or shoes traveled the to bathroom took off the shoe balanced on the sink and dropped a wet foot on the mat.

The only bloody footprint, the one on the bath mat, was a closer match to gued's foot than rs's. On iPod at mo but will try to find the link to the photos.

If this so-called cultural bent to the whole thing is true, how come Sollecito is banged up as well as Knox?

Surely this thread should be re-named 'the sad case of Amanda Knox'

Well said.

thanks for the pointless contribution selectivememory

Oh, so only the cut and paste conspiracy theorists (on both sides) can play?

indeedy.

it's pretty obnoxious to imply that if you disagree with the verdict and attempt to debate and discuss the evidence, you must automatically feel less for the victim and her family.

and your childish comments are pretty pointless too bucharest.

and are you somehow above everyone contributing to this thread because you're not sharing any specific information?

Blinks, I think you'll find I have shared an awful lot of information on this thread, having participated on it from page 1.

Not above any of it no. What I have attempted to share, if you read back to my contributions, is my knowledge of the Italian legal system, the fact of having been here in Italy, watching both the aftermath of the murder itself and the trial on a day to day basis, and living in the same place as Sollecito. I have also attempted to clarify a few points that non-Italians have found odd/off (ie the salaciousness of the reporting outside of Italy, that has certainly not been the case here.)

Strangely, even DuelingFanjo hasn't seemed to find any of the above irrelevant as you obviously do, for which I humbly apologise. I didn't realise one needed a dossier of google print outs to contribute to threads.

fascinating

and so do you yourself want to rename the thread seeing as you have contributed to the it since Page 1?

and there's nothing humble about you dear.

Here I sit rending cloth and wringing my hands... having learned via this thread that hundreds, nay, hundreds of thousands of innocent people have been convicted of crimes since the dawn of time without compelling DNA evidence. I shall weep for their souls.

"it's pretty obnoxious to imply that if you disagree with the verdict and attempt to debate and discuss the evidence, you must automatically feel less for the victim and her family."

^this.

So far on this thread snyone who has talked about the sketchy evidence against Knox and Sollecito has been accused (Among other things) of being

Anti-Italian
Unsympathetic to the Kercher family
Somehow 'connected to' the case
Deluded
The kind of people who write letters to people on death row

But those of us who feel this is a miscarriage of justice have pointed out again and again that we don't think the verdict was based on Anti-Americanism and that we think that view is damaging to the case.

That we feel the utmost sympathy for the Kercher family but also think that imprisoning the wrong people with unscientific methods is not the kind of Justice the Kercher's deserve.

That our interest in debate about this crime is not a gory interest but the exact same kind of interest that those on the opposing side have.

Plus we have always been able to provide links to any point we make.

"Oh, so only the cut and paste conspiracy theorists (on both sides) can play? "

true - both 'sides' have been providing links to support their opinion and sometimes this has meant that when one person posts something which is completely false (Like the picture of the bloody bathroom) another person has provided a link to show the truth. Then there are the people pop in, post something like "Surely this thread should be re-named 'the sad case of Amanda Knox'" or make a bitchy comment to someone and then fail to get involved in the debate in any way. It is pointless contribution IMO.

The thread was started just hours before the verdict was given and rapidly became a thread for people to repeat gossip, assumptions and lies about Amanda Knox.

"going shopping to buy underwear"

"snogging her boyfriend in front of the cameras"

"She seems like a vile person with all that idiotic behaviour"

"make my skin crawl"

Once people started to bring Knox (And Knox alone in many cases) into the thread - yes it became all about her. It wasn't just the ones who think they are innocent who made this thread about Knox! Many of us have repeatedly tried to get the conversation back to the three accused, to the facts of the case, yet for some reason for a lot of people it is all about Knox Knox Knox.

"Strangely, even DuelingFanjo hasn't seemed to find any of the above irrelevant as you obviously do"

I'm sorry! Sometimes I like to do real life stuff like sleeping

But what was the "truth" in that case? Even the prosecution seems not to have been able to explain AK's and RS's motive for killing Meredith Kercher? I'm sure it has already been linked but I thought this article in the Times makes a number of good points, most importantly, imo, that there has never been a audio or video recording or even a transcript of the interview in which AK confessed. I don't know whether she did it or not but, going on the evidence that I've read, there doesn't seem much to convict her.

The Kercher family may well believe that justice was done. Although they were not prepared to say if they thought Knox and Sollecito were guilty at the press conference they gave. It still remains that the evidence was not good enough to convict and that the guilty verdicts, based upon the prosecutions case, were wrong.

perhaps at the appeal the prosecution can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Knox, Sollecito and Guede killed Meredith kercher suring a sexual game which went wrong, or perhaps the defence teams will prove the opposite.

I really feel for Mrs kercher and can understand why she would put her faith in the prosecution teams. That she believes the low level of acrimony the two girls had towards eachother was the motive for the murder is very sad as I do not think that was in any way proven.

I personally do not believe that Amanda Knox got 2 other people to help her abuse and kill her housemate but I guess that's just my belief and I can't prove otherwise.

Still - there is enough information out there which points to the fact that Knox and Sollecito were not even in the room where the murder took place and so for this reason I really do bellieve there has been a miscarriage of justice and so these people must appeal.

I also think it would be a tragedy if Guede's sentance is reduced because of the view that he was just some kind of lap-dog to Amanda who was only doing what she told him to do.

I am torn. I think the forensic evidence is hugely inadequate but feel certain things AK and RS said just don't add up. Why would RS say he had pricked MK with the knife previously? I can't imagine a scenario where you would accidentally prick someone with a kitchen knife.

I have read the Il Messaggero article that these statements were made in and it seems that Mrs kerchers full statement is along the lines that she is critical of Amanda Knox's family bringing politics into the issue (Ie accusing the Italians of being anti-American) and that the appeal is tough enough without that. She also says she doesn't know why there would be talk of Anti-Americanism as she was in the court and received no special treatment nor saw any anti-Americanism.

I can't find where she says stuff about the verdictor that she bellives they are guilty but it's possible there is more than one story in that paper?

this is it I think

I can see that Mrs kercher thinks that none of teh accused are telling the truth and that they trust the process of the court.

Online some of what she says translates as (And it's a bit hard to understand with an online translator)
" "I do not think I do not believe that the bitterness was so high. I think there were any disagreements between the two girls and contradictory nature of this fabric has been inserted the motive of murder. "

and

", "The parents of Amanda and Raffaele speak of judicial error. Think it's a possibility? "No, we believe that the truth has been established." "