The BNP's Nick Griffin on Question Time, what are your thoughts?

[overmydeadbody]

link here

Well the BNP state as a fact and policy that they will encourage voluntary repatriation of non-white people.

They also state that a white family line is destroyed by intermarriage.

So presuming that they're logical, a big jump I know, and the two together mean that mixed race, and therefore non-white, families would be encouraged to go "home".

So you've either got to conclude that would want to deport mixed race families or that they're illogical.

The BNP are challenged and vilified for things like holocaust denial that no other political party, or anyone with any sense, would even contemplate.

But I don't think the BNP are remotely interested in anything factual, except the things they agree with. Perhaps we're all like this, but I'd like to think academic data still have some valid independent status.

I think the BNP are motivated by racial hatred, so I would agree that they couldn't care less about facts, except insofar as they suit their purposes.

But it's no surprise that a bunch of racists are being seen as the only alternative when those on the right (i.e. UKIP and some parts of the Conservative Party) have been marginalised so effectively by the media.

The Far Right were very effectively marginalised in the 1980s by the Thatcher government. The current BNP renaissance is a consequence of the immigration over the last decade, unprecedented in British history, which the main parties didn't bother to control and are too scared to talk about.

SG, you have summed it up perfectly here

The current BNP renaissance is a consequence of the immigration over the last decade, unprecedented in British history, which the main parties didn't bother to control and are too scared to talk about.

What things are the BNP challenged for that other parties get away with?

I disagree with alot of what Labour has done, but the BNP is a whole different kettle of fish, all parties should be challenged all of the time imo. If we fail to do that we risk losing the democratic rights we have.

Even at face value the BNP should appear to be unreasonable, under educated, ill informed, nasty bigots.

Remember they deny the deaths of 6 million Jews, 2 million Soviet POWs, 2 million Poles, 1.5 million Romani, 1/2 million disabled people, 15000 homosexuals and 5000 Jehovah's Witnesses.

12 million people, say that number again, 12 million people!

How can anyone even consider them after that?

So I'll say again I fervently hope that most BNP voters are protest voters who are voting for them out of anger and frustration and really don't know anything about them and certainly don't believe it.

So we need to inform people what the BNP are about and what they believe.

So tonight's show is very very important.

Accusations of being vague, fudging truth, having a different agenda to the one they publish, hiding unpleaant truths behind convincing arguments and spin.

Gosh, not the the Tories, Labour or heaven forbid, even the Green Party do that. Deary me, no,no ,no.

it's true...new labour have created the rise of the BNP.....middle class lefties who tell white working class people to put up and shut up.....

you only have yourselves to blame..

i will be voting BNP...and as soon as they are taking new members i will be joining them.

What part of "I am well aware that the orthodox opinion is that six million Jews were gassed and cremated and turned into lampshades. Orthodox opinion also once held that the world is flat" vague, fudged or hidden?

The BNP are clearly and openly ignorant and nasty.

Ok, moondog, you clearly prefer to be derisive than engage properly in the debate - I think my question was reasonable and indeed topical but you obviously don't see fit to answer it.

Judge me all you want, I would take pompous but tolerant over racist bigot any day.....

If the BNP route is given any credence then the consequences, if allowed to be realised could be truly horrific.

I still wait eagerly for a response from anyone which would even attempt to explain how any of the BNP policies actually make any damned sense........

'hiding unpleasant truths behind convincing arguments'

I agree that our existing government does this, however - how are the BNP's arguments convincing? I don't see much evidence of 'spin' on their website either tbh....probably a good thing.

Remember they deny the deaths of 6 million Jews, 2 million Soviet POWs, 2 million Poles, 1.5 million Romani, 1/2 million disabled people, 15000 homosexuals and 5000 Jehovah's Witnesses.

You should be more careful with your facts when criticising others for the same

BNP statement:

"
Q. Your leader is on record denying the Holocaust ever happened and claiming that Jews control the media ? you are clearly an anti-Semitic party.

A. Not at all. Dredging up quotes from 10, 15, 20 years ago is really pathetic and, in a sense, rather fascist. Everyone knows that people?s political philosophies evolve and change as they develop ? at least three Labour ministers were previously Communist Party members, for instance - and Nick Griffin has repeatedly stated that he has changed his views since then. The BNP is in no way anti-Semitic nor do we deny the Holocaust. We have many Jewish members and are pleased to have a Jewish councillor in Epping, who is, indeed, the group leader there."

bnp.org.uk/2007/12/countering-the-smears/

There are plenty of things one can say about the BNP, and perhaps more usefully (from an attack point of view) their leaders, members and Councillors, but you really need to do your research rather than repeating ill-informed and inaccurate smears.

I think moondog that all parties are accused of that at some point. The BNP agenda is just more unpleasant than anyone elses, they are more racist.

I really don't think dp you can blame NL for you supporting a party of racist thugs, I really fail to see how that works.

Ill-informed and inaccurate? Nick Griffin said those things, and worse.

Those comments were made when Nick Griffin was the leader of the BNP and as such are very relevant.

I'd be more than happy to see one statement where Nick Griffin says "I was wrong, the holocaust did happen, 12 million people were killed" as openly and clearly as he said that it did happen.

In the interest of honesty and clarity I should correct myself, Nick Griffin made that statement in particular in 1998, which was a year before he became leader of the BNP but while he was a member of it.

Nick Griffin said what things exactly?

You don't have a clue do you.

The fact is that the statement is wrong.

The BNP do not deny the holocaust.

That is factually inaccurate.

Griffin has been involved with holocaust denialists in the past, but has disclaimed it, and it is no more accurate to say that the BNP deny the holocaust than it is to say that the Conservative party campaign on the basis of "If you want a nigger for a neighbour, vote for Labour", or that the Daily Mail support the Union of Fascists.

If you want to slag the BNP off, or Griffin, by all means do so, but do so with accurate facts rather than vague distortions.

I don't think this should be controversial. There's plenty to damn them with, so why distort the facts?

I personally don't find the BNPs arguments convincing but I can see why other people might. If they weren't convincing or attractive, then nobody would support them or vote for them.

I can see Moondogs point. This is a really good debate and it is not nice if it degenerates into point scoring arguments.

BP;

he's been asked about that so many times....

it's old news..

concentrate on the here and now...

and the future....

And continuing the theme of openness here’s something that Nick Griffin said in 2006: "It's well-known the chimneys from the gas chambers at Auschwitz are fake, built after the war ended."

Until someone can find a clear statement from Nick Griffin where he admits that he was wrong and that the holocaust did happen then it's very much not old news. He was denying it at least as recently as 2006.

How can you trust someone who denies such an obvious fact of history?

Great BP, actual facts. Not "The BNP deny the holocaust", but something that Griffin actually said.

There are some more statements here: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1221880/BNP-leader-Nick-Griffin-A-bigot-damned-vile-words.html

Griffin is anti-semitic and there are plenty of statements to that effect there.

The BNP OTOH, are an opportunist party and they see Muslims as a better target - they are not a holocaust denying party, it doesn't suit their purposes, no matter what Griffin's private beliefs might be.

In a very odd way they're happy to court the Jewish vote right now because the BNP have shifted to bang the anti-Muslim drum.

But we can agree that Nick Griffin is anti-semitic and was denying the holocaust at least as recently as 2006?

Another BNP candidate in the 2009 European Elections, Marlene Guest, said on TV in 2008 "Now Nick Griffin queried numbers... I've read a thing called Did 6 Million Jews Really Die?... If they'd have kept the crematorium going in this little camp for 24/7 for 50 years they still couldn't have burnt that amount of bodies."

So the leader of the BNP is an open holocaust denier and so is at least one other candidate.

Considering so many people are not interested in what NG has to say, have any of you considered NOT WATCHING and boycotting the programme tonight???

My beautiful mixed race 13 yo daughter has already told me she certainly won't be watching and has no interest in NG or BNP party political opinions...although I will be recording and watching tomorrow (as I just can't stop myself being a rubber necker!)

We have an active BNP near us and I get lots of leaflets during elections, which I am very happy to recycle - I almost requested an additional set at the last election, so I could help bankrupt the party-LOL.

Just caught up on the thread and realised how stuffed the BNP could be if they looked closely at my family - I have a range of multi-coloured and white children (only 2 DPs, I hasten to add )

Who or what would they re-patriate?? LOL

And I thought SIL was being impossibly paranoid when she refused to use her mother's maiden name for any of her security questions 'in case the BNP get in and find out I'm half-jewish'...

So DH and his sibs would be cut in half and repatriated to the Isle of Wight and Austria respectively?

I was once talking to a guy at a family bbq (step-cousin's next door neighbour IIRR) and it gradually became apparent that he held very far-right views and was in fact a BNP voter (sadly in our part of Greater London/Essex they do hold council seats) - he commented on DD (blonde hair, blue eyes) and her beautiful 'pure' colouring. "Oh, that's from her Austrian Jewish grandmother" I took great delight in telling him... he couldn't get away fast enough!

I was telling my dad about the awful things the BNP stand for, and looked on their website to prove my point.
There was nothing about the holocaust stuff?

He read a lot of their policies, and actually said he agreed with some (not all) and that people of his age feel very strongly about some of the issues.

I worry that as none of the other parties are tackling these issues, a lot of older disenfranchised people will see it as a viable alternative to the main parties in a general election.

He is 76, and does feel genuinely alienated when he goes shopping, and is surrounded by people not speaking English, and wearing burkhas etc.
Some of you may never visit places like this, but they are close to us.
I would never vote BNP, but I think a lot of older people would.