Conservative proposals to freeze public sector pay-what do we think??

[MavisEnderby]

Good idea or not?

This is happening now, workers in car plants are being asked to take a pay cut to keep their fellow workers employed/ or/ work shorter hours/ or/ take a holiday etc, so why does the public sector think they are worse off than the private sector by being asked to have one years pay freeze to keep their fellow workers in employment.

As Mr Osbourne said 'we are all in this together.

oh yes, so Mr Osbourne will also be handing back his payrise? all in this together, thats a joke atlantis. at the same time they will cut the 50% tax rate and raise the inheritance tax threshold. rich helping the rich as ever.

quite honestly i think the public sector pay freeze is an unfortunate consequence of the siutation we are in. but it should be a temporary measure and not one to boost tory coffers to allow policies which only help the rich.

To be honest, a lot of the private sector is already feeling the squeeze.
DH and all his partners took a mahoosive drop in their drawings on profit last year to avoid redundancies within the emplyed staff.
When that wasn't enough they asked the staff if they would be prepared to take a pay freeze.
Next workers were offered an unpaid sabatical with a guaranteed jonb when they return. They were also offered pt.
Anything to avoid redundancies...which fingers crossed they have managed thus far.

And in publishing I know most authors have had their advances slashed.
I don't think any industires are immune.

Everyone is taking a hit.

Herhonesty - Osborne will be taking a 5% pay cut as will other ministers. He said that in his speech.

Personaly, I cannot see why we have so many ministers. We should half the current number ofministerial posts which have exploded under Labour as have quangos. Cannot wait to see the current lot get a 100% pay cut.

but that just ministers ABD . ..but as MPs I dont see osborne saying he would be freezing MP's salaries. and they were extremely quiet when it came to this years round...

True. I recall reading that very recently they had voted trough a rise in their expenses in some way. Cannot quite remeber what - but it was after the whole expenses scandal emerged.

When times were good I'm not sure I heard too many private sector workers envying public sector workers and rushing to be a part of the public sector because of the perks and financial rewards to be found there. DH and I both choose to work in the public sector for a variety of reasons. DH gets paid a decent salary as a frontline NHS worker but his working conditions are not great and his pay rises over the last 10 years have been crap. Also his pension isn't exactly brilliant. Saying that, I understand that a pay freeze is inevitable. The reports he brings back from work re. cuts are disturbing. However, there can be no assumption that he won't have a pay freeze and be made redundant. We feel his position is pretty precarious at present. I think we are all feeling the strain at the moment. However, when good times eventually return and the private sector benefits, I don't expect for one second that DH or my salary will reflect that.

My view is that they have no choice but to freeze pay, and the way they have proposed the freeze sounds sensible.

DH is public sector and more specifically armed forces. His view is that regardless of the cuts there will soon be a redundancy round announced - I imagine after the next election. Not that the forces don't have enough to do - and not to forget that they are hopelessly overstretched, but the money simply isn't there.

Perhaps this will bring one aspect of the public sector into line with teh private sector. The firm I work for has lost almost half of its employees (several hundred) over the past 18 months. No pay rises here - in fact we've had to take unpaid leave - which in my case has meant £1000 deducted from my pay over about 4 months.

mumof2..boys - a good fair and sensible post.

What is very clear is that public sector employees who are not allowed to strike (army, police) have seen their pay consistently lag behind the public sector and the private sector in both pay and conditions. The state of armed forces accomodation for families is also an utter scandal.

I don't think anyone in their right mind includes the armed forces or frontline NHS or emergency services staff in their thinking when it comes to reforming public sector pay. Indeed, I note the Tory party has specifically addressed that issue by excluding the armed forces and anyone paid less than £18,000 from the pay cap.

Your experience in the private sector is very common and I think most people see pubic sector workers in office jobs, especially senior management positions and above, as needing to take the pain alongside the private sector.

Mackeral - I agree, In the boom we (as public sector workers) were not the ones making a killing on the property market and getting big bonuses. It strikes me that those of us who are in the public sector are the ones taking the hit to prop up the mistakes made in the finance sector.

However as things stand a pay freeze is inevitable.

And nor were the legions of workers in supermarkets, garages, hairdressers, pubs, etc.
Not everyone in the private sector is a banker you know.

I think some people need to get a job in the private sector (if they think they can hack it).

And, in the interest of balance, some should give the public sector a try if they think it's so cushy.

I agree litchick. I am happy to make my contribution to our recovery through my pay freeze. Certain private sector members have messed up but during the boom their taxes paid for the money that has been invested into schools, hospitals etc ..

I'm presuming some armed forces will feel the pain (non-front line) as will those front line NHS workers earning over 18K(there are lots of nurses earning over 18K)

I still say there are lots of private sector workers who have not had effective pay cuts for the last however many years (mine have been for at least the last 5) the public sector will pay I have lost my job (see earlier posts) and I was surprised to hear a colleague talking about 15% cuts a few months ago the latest I heard was 20%.

I still say either we view the public sector as a great big work creation project in which case then since we're all in it together get 80% of the private sector to sign up for a pay cut and I will too
or we recognise that there is a lot of wastage etc etc in which case lets cut some of the c&^p then we will be able to honour other workers 1% pay rise

In the NHS over the past 10 years the pay'rise' has been consistently below inflation. It is only with this last 3 year paydeal (which at the time was also below inflation - i.e. in real terms a paycut) that inflation/interest rates have been reduced.
We did not have large payrises when times were good, nor bonuses.
I work an extra 10 hours a week - I will never get the time back nor get paid for it.
My job may be more secure than a private sector employee - and that's the trade-off that I chose for not having the other benefits of the private sector when I decided to work in the NHS.

Obviously the situation the country's is not going to go away - has anyone heard anything about how we are going to get the money back from the banks and finance sectors which we lent them?
How about all the PFI projects they've been busy leeching out of the NHS and education?

My dh and both work for the public sector.

I have worked for the NHS for over 20 years and dh has been in the Navy for the last 12 years.

Yes, we both chose our career paths knowing that we would not have the same earning opportunities, than if we had chosen to work in the private sector.

We have never had the opportunity to earn bonuses and as Bela said in her post, for years we have received below inflation pay rises, which are in effect a pay cut.

The area in which I am currently employed, is looking to make huge efficiency savings. So, when people leave they are not replaced, when nurses or doctors are off sick, replacements are rarely brought in to cover them.

This means that staff are over worked and stressed, but then they are only dealing with peoples lives, so not that important then?

My dh is currently away from home for seven months, on a non operational deployment, so he will not receive any extra payment for being away from home for so long.
Our youngest daughter was a baby when he left, she is now a toddler and he has missed out on so much.

Our eldest daughter said to me the other day "I only have a mummy now" She is only 4 and feels as if her daddy no longer exists.

That is the reality of our lives.

Sorry for the rambling post, but I'm just fed up with the reality that the private sector had the ability to earn more/take more risks, but because of a complete screw up, the public sector are expected to put up and shut up.

The cynical side of me thinks that the Conservatives have chosen to target people who were very unlikely to vote for them anyway -
public sector employees etc (yes I know there are exceptions) but think of it from their point of view - no real harm in pissing off those who weren't going to vote for you anyway!

Flappy - indeed! We are not allowed to replace anyone who leaves regardless of the amount of work we have. Earlier this year we had an 80% increase in work due to Jade Goodey - what would the private sector have done? We were not allowed to get anyone extra in to cope with getting 3 months of samples at once.
I have have been covering two people's work for the past couple of years. I am Tired

"I'm presuming some armed forces will feel the pain (non-front line)"

Apparently not - the Armed Forces are to be exempt from the pay freeze.

jcscto...snort. thats so transparent....

whilst having utmost respect for all armed forces personnel,particularly those who have to be away from their families for such logn periods of time, i think they get a pretty fair deal in terms of salaries, housing, annual pension and lump sum on retirement.

"i think they get a pretty fair deal in terms of salaries, housing, annual pension and lump sum on retirement."

The housing, well it's not so much of a fair deal when one considers how badly run down so much of it is (the refurb programme keeps getting stalled due to lack of money). The pension is excellent - no arguments there. The salaries are a bit mixed - junior ranks rate of pay is pretty appalling when you consider the job they do.

Anyway, most people in the Forces do not serve for the money, so it's a bit irrelevant. Politically, I think it's more to do with retaining personnel - if you freeze wages while there's a war on, you're likely to increase the numbers of people resigning from the services. Given that there is already a shortfall in recruitment, the focus needs to be on retention of highly-trained servicemen and women.

i agree with the housing stock, some of it is shocking, but its not rented out at anywhere near market rent.

we always need armed forces, we always need nurses, doctors, judges, etc etc. and if its not for money in the first place,as you say, then retention shouldnt be an issue anyway?

What I don't get is why the PM got The 2009 World Statesman Award ? Below is what I got when I googled it - I don't know if put the torys in power would we tip into the abyss or as most of the bankers went to Eton and/or Oxbridge unis would they get Britain out of the mess?

On September 22, Prime Minister Brown was awarded the 2009 World Statesman award by the Appeal of Conscience Foundation. The award was presented by Rabbi Arthur Schneier, president and founder of the Appeal of Conscience Foundation, and Dr. Henry Kissinger during the foundation's annual award benefit dinner. The Prime Minister was cited for his "compassionate leadership in dealing with the challenging issues facing humanity, his commitment to freedom, human dignity and the environment and for the major role he has played in helping to stabilize the world's financial system."

oops - I put that one on the wrong thread

"and if its not for money in the first place,as you say, then retention shouldnt be an issue anyway? "

There are lots of reasons people leave: some have come to the end of their careers and know they're not going to go any higher, some always plan to only serve a few years. Others leave because of the strain placed on familes by frequent operational tours and the ignoring of the harmony guidelines (which state that there should be at least a 24 mth gap between tours). Some leave because they're sick of the equipment shortages/underfunding.

While money might not be the main motivating factor, a pay freeze might be the last straw for those considering their future - hence the exemption from the pay freeze.

Regarding the housing - below market rate rent is no excuse for the shocking state of the houses. Paying a pittance is no comfort when you have no heating/mould growing bedrooms/stained and fraying carpets/windows with gaps around the frames so the wind comes whistling in etc etc.

The reduction in rent is to reflect the fact that service personnel have no choice about where they live and for how long they remain there.