plymouth nursery worker has pleaded guilty to sexual offences...

[wannaBe]

They've just announced on bbc that Vanessa George and two others (one man and one woman) have pleaded guilty to child sexual asalts and distribution of images.

I agree Riven

I do think the sentences are often astonishingly light.
I am not one of the hang 'em and flog 'em brigade but I see little evidence that when they emerge after short sentences they are in any way changed. I am not sure their behaviours can be ever altered and if a percentage will relapse after release the price paid is more children harmed.

I don't know what the soloution is but the world seems to have its head in the sand and the result is victims continue to bear a huge burden of shame.
The more we treat the accusers as dirty mac types the more shameful victims will feel. I know when I say I was abused people imediately cast me in some torrid slum with a hairy cheasted sweaty type. The Lynda La Plant type tv stuff doesn't help either.

The shame is horrendous for family and victims

Sorry - very waffly

today there are calls for people who work in childcare to be banned from having mobile phones in the childcare setting.

Now while I can understand the thinking behind it, the reality is just completely unworkable.

You can ban mobiles in nurseries, but what about childminders? nannies? So then perhaps you should ban childcarers from being alone with children, but again, what about those childcarers that work as individuals?

pagwatch 'having an atittude where you think you can spot them is the very thing that places children in danger - and is one of the more stupid consequences ofthe ridiculous stranger danger policy. '

Er, I don't think I actually did say anything like this! And I CERTAINLY don't have a stranger danger mentality--quite the opposite.

I just don't like the look of her.

pagwatch 'having an atittude where you think you can spot them is the very thing that places children in danger - and is one of the more stupid consequences ofthe ridiculous stranger danger policy. '

Er, I don't think I actually did say anything like this! And I CERTAINLY don't have a stranger danger mentality--quite the opposite.

I just don't like the look of her.

but what about nannies? childminders?

If a nursery worker wants to abuse children and they tighten the laws on nurseries only they will perhaps become a childminder, or a nanny, where they have unsupervised access to children..

But you can't ban nannies and childminders from having mobile phones or from being alone with children.

If tighter regulations are to be put in place, then it needs to be across the board, and that is simply not possible.

And it's important to remember that this is one nursery worker. And while what happened to those children is horrific beyond words, instances like this are incredibly, incredibly rare, hence the shock and disbelief of so many people.

I think banning phomes from nurseries , playgroups etc is a totally kneejerk reaction (work in a playgroup myself). If you ban them from one set of childcare settings then you have to ban them from all - just how do you do that with childminders etc .

I have my mobile phone on and stuck in amy pocket all the time at work, it is there for mainly the school toget hold of me re my two children . Yes they ahve my work number but so often work days can chop and change to cover sickness or swap with colleague.

In our setting we have a camera that we taken photos of the children doing actibties which we give to the parents .

A knee jerk reaction - knee jerk reactions end up making kee jerk laws which then back fire.

If my playgroup wishes to ban phones then I will not oblige . I will make a compromise in that my phone is keot oon buy within easy reach of everybody should it ring.

Personally I wonder why people even have to walk around with their mobile phones at work at all!

My husband works in a prison and can't take his in. This has never caused problems. In an emergency I can ring his place of work and they will get him for me.

We managed before mobiles, everyone seems to think they are indispensible these days. Alot of the staff are told to switch them off and put them away at work because if they are constantly getting calls and texts they aren't getting on with their job.

Think this is fair enough and to be honest I wouldn't be expecting nursery nurses to be taking calls and texts during their working hours so they shouldn't have them with them. Obviously they can be locked away and used when on a break.

I dont think that phones (epecially camera phones) should be allowed in any setting where there are vulnerable people (that includes Care homes, nurseries etc)

I work in a secure mental hospital and we are not allowed to have phones on any of the units. We either have to put them in a locker in reception or leave them at home.

Actually in a way the mobile was a blessing

The court agreed that her primary motivation was sexual - so she would have done it anyway

If it wasn't for the photos, she would never have been caught

abra1d
the first line of my response was to you.

The rest was a general observation which started with "it seems to comfort many....."

Although tbh, and now you have err'ed at me, I am still not quite sure what your retrospective observation that you don't like the look of her means regarding how we are supposed to spot paedophiles and intuitively know which ones you can trust with a child. Everyone looks dodgy in police photos. And what does someones appearance have to do with their likely paedophile tendencies?
She looks overweight and plain. Does that equal paedophile?

I have my phine at work , I am ot constantly making calls and texts but it is my point of contact.

we have a camera avalibel at the setting I work , if someone truelly wanted to take photos of a child they could use this , sneak it home etc.

Mobile phones are a way of life now and I feel more comftarbel it being with me so I can get hold of easily in emergencies that not having it on.

In a child care setting there are better ways of ensuring that thsi doesn't happen rtaher than total ban on mobiles.

next thing child minders will not be able to have mobiles or cameras in there house .

I agree nursery nurses shouldn't have mobiles with them - but only cos they should be doing their job not taking calls and writing texts. I have said it before the only way to stop this sort of stuff is through observation. Not easy with a CM or nanny tho.

At playgroups how can they ban mobiles? The parents are there with the kids, I watch my kids constantly at playgroup therefore I know they are not being photographed.

I agree banning mobiles is a knee jerk reaction - like CRB checks which came in after Huntley... a CRB check would not have even stopped him getting that job. At my church people who have been life-long members of the church (ie we would know if they had been convicted of an offence) have to be CRB checked before they can pick disabled people up and bring them to church. It's ridiculous.

abra1d

I am sorry. My message does not read as I intended. It sounds arsey when actually I am just frustrated at the whole 'they look like monsters' line which I am hearing all over the place.

Paedophiles don't often look like monsters in spite of the tabloids enjoying printingthe worst images they can find of them.

But i am not arsey with you personally and I am sorry it does read like that...

I hope they get proper long senetnces but I am astounded one of them was on the child protection register but after 5 years he could come off. It should be for life!

Sex offenders register.

And this fact would still have been disclosed had he gone to work with children and had an Enhanced CRB Disclosure.

He was entered on the register for what was described as 'low-level' images of teenage girls. This is not classed as paedophilic behaviour, and 5 years on the sex offenders register does not seem unreasonable.

Abra - I saw an interview with one of the mothers and they asked her what George was like - she said something along the lines of: "she was lovely, she seemed like just the sort of person you'd want looking after your child. Bubbly and happy....the children loved her"

I find this so shocking ....even though I know it's not logical - I imagine I have some 'sense' of who would do this sort of thing...but to hear a rational mother just like us that felt utterly devastated by everything.... including the fact she 'trusted' this woman completely terrifies me.

And I read a quote from one of the parents saying they wanted to skin her and rub her in salt - shockingly graphic but I imagine that's the kind of hatred I would feel in the same situation.

Other than being with your child 24/7 it seems there is no way to be 100% sure that he/she is safe. But I guess we have to cling on to the belief that this is a rare rare case otherwise we would be paralysed with fear.

How many people were working at this nursery at the same time as her?

Message withdrawn

neenz- playgroups also are settings that parenst leave their children for around 4 hrs per day , usaully morning , so parents are not with the children.

As a playgroup worker I still object to being ask not to bring my phone in to work or have it switched off.

We know not to use it to make phone calls whilst with the children .

Do it at one childcare setting do it at all - including childminders , baysitters who come to your house in evenng, nannies etc

Phones are small ans slim enoughtto sneak into a setting away if someone really wanted to take pcitures ,a type like George would have proably done that ! what next frisk search in way into work !

Totally ridiculous .

how about randon searches of nursery workers?

is that a joke?

FFS, we get one abuse case and people want to ban mobile phones and put metal detectors in nurseries.

Random searches of nursery workers ? you are joking right ?

Go the whole hog and have raids on childminders ! Not the early morning that police have but around 11am when settling down to have a mid morning cup of tea ! FFS

I think that I read in a news report that George was 'emotionally vulnerable' and would be undergoing Psychiatric Assessments.
Could she have been so vulnerable that she was 'lured' into this somehow by the other two?

I still cant quite believe it all, its like something from a film.

Awful.