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If the Tories come into power, tax credits could be axed :-O

269 replies

GlastonburyGoddess · 28/08/2009 22:07

In the news today. Im appalled. Talking about how tax credits create a demotivation to earn more etc etc

Im disgusted, no mention of if it would be replaced with something else.

we both work, we get our wages at the end of the month and within 3 days its gone on bils, we then live day to day off the tax credits. we'd be f**d hope they dont end up in power....

OP posts:
TheDMshouldbeRivened · 02/09/2009 17:05

we are? I seem to recall most of the sept 11 bombers being Saudi....not Afgani's or Iraqis. But heck, they is all brown.

And what do you mean 'accept a life of crap'? Cut benefits to disabled poeple so they starve but tough shit?
Why should we accept a life of crap in the 4th richest country in the world that we paid tax into?

TheDMshouldbeRivened · 02/09/2009 17:06

lol ilovemydog!

IUsedToBePeachy · 02/09/2009 17:08

No I don't

I can campaign and I will do

I have a very loud voice too and I can assure you I will be heard.

I do not HAVE to accept anything. I just don't.

But youn know- there's every chance that someone you know or love will become a carer: maybe you, maybe your kids, maybe your DP if you have one. If that happens 9and for your sake I hope to goodness it does not) try telling them the same thing.

I'd be a far less person if I accepted a life of crap for my boys just becuase they are on benefits. I don't expect one long term- I have plans and they will happen- and I am damned to fuck if anyone expects me to take that for my child.

IUsedToBePeachy · 02/09/2009 17:21

Oh and if you think that this war will affct terrorism long term youa re damned right

I actually accept that theya re after the Taleban which is mroe than most do, but long ter- well look at Chechnya for signs of what will happen! The best way to create an entire new generation iof terrorists, suicide bombers and the like is to enter their country, be involved in atrocities and then in all likeliness leave it none the better.
Now, I actually am not anti Afghansitan- I am sititng firmly on the fence- but i think you have to be very naive to think this is going to provide any long terms olution to terrorism, maybe it'll whack the Taleban a little who knows, but in 10, 20 years time- what then?

TheEgoHasLanded · 02/09/2009 17:25

who bailed out the banks..? the labour party...are the labour party capitalists..?

peachy; when i said some people have to accept a life of crap i wasn't talking about you personally...i was talking about people who have kids they can't afford and will be forever dependant on the tax payer....i'm sorry, but they deserve all they get....which should be very little.

atlantis · 02/09/2009 17:27

"we are fighting a war to protect this country from terrorism.."

OMG that's the funniest thing I have heard all day.

Where next then? Iran? Pakistan? Saudi? Birmingham? Bradford?

atlantis · 02/09/2009 17:28

"are the labour party capitalists..?"

Actually yes they are.

TheDMshouldbeRivened · 02/09/2009 17:29

this war has radicalised some poeple who would have been fence sitting. Its made the world a more dangerous place.
Every time the Americans bomb another innocent wedding party and kill children you make some more terrorists who hate the west

atlantis · 02/09/2009 17:38

Well if another country came into our land I would take up arms to get rid of them as well...

Although if they did it to force the government into an early election I would actually be hanging bunting

2shoes · 02/09/2009 17:52

By TheEgoHasLanded on Wed 02-Sep-09 17:00:49
we are fighting a war to protect this country from terrorism..

and i'm sorry, but some people do have to accept a life of crap..

what a load of bollocks, DP you can do better thatn that

TheEgoHasLanded · 02/09/2009 17:53

atlantis..of course the labour party are capitalists...tony blair was described as the best tory the conservatives never had....
plus labour are traditionally anti-war .....but we all know the real labour party doesn't exist anymore.

atlantis · 02/09/2009 19:25

"tony blair was described as the best tory the conservatives never had...."

Now that's just being offensive to all conservative voters everywhere. (shudders at the thought). I would hope that if Blair had been a conservative his stupidity would have been reined in by the party and not encouraged or allowed to become policy.

daisy5678 · 02/09/2009 20:30

egohaslanded, you might want to watch this and related videos www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGHbbJ5xz3g&feature=related. Obama talking about how societies like the US (and here) have an empathy defecit. I think he might have had someone like you in mind. We judge societies by how they care for its most vulnerable members; you seem to be advocating for a Darwinistic survival of the fittest: people who are 'strong', rich etc. survive; people who are poor, disabled etc. are fucked. How is that fair?

Tax credits are a lifesaver for many. I was lucky enough (I'm being sarcastic in one sense but sincere in another) to become a single parent under Labour. I was still at uni and quite young. I had managed all As at A-level and my tutors at uni convinced me that I had the brains to still pass my degree even with a baby and doing minimal work. I had one more year to do, and only had to be in uni for a few hours a week, so decided to carry on. I had all my childcare paid and the same when I trained to become a teacher.

When I became a teacher, I earned £18k in my first year. Not a bad salary, but horrendous when my childcare costs were £900 a month (£9800 a year). Tax credits pretty much paid for my childcare, without which I would not have been able to survive financially.

Without tax credits, I would not have been able to gradually work my way up to a salary that means that I virtually qualify for no tax credits - even the severely disabled elements are lost due to income. But financially, I am only where I am today because the support was there in the first place. What would have been better? Staying at home till my son went to school? In retrospect, that might have actually been better for me and for him, but my family were so anti-benefits and the benefits people were so aggressive about getting me off benefits when I finished teacher training that I did apply for a job just to shut everyone up.

I actually love my job, and am considered very good at it . I am glad I do it, but never forget that Labour enabled me to do it!

But someone like me can't win: stay at home and get whinged at for being a scroungy single parents or go to work and get whinged at for subsidising my income with tax credits.

Oh, that's right: single parents are all bad and evil. Well, single parents aren't created happily in general: death, divorce, domestic violence etc. etc.

And however an adult finds themselves in poverty, whether it's by choice or bad luck or circumstances, I find it a very sad thing if their child should have to suffer, so how can getting rid of financial support be justified?

This thread has made me very sad in places and people like theEgo really need to get their heads out of their smug, self-satisfied arses and imagine what it is like to be someone else and maybe consider not sniping and judging about that other person's lifestyle. And as for wishing that other people's lives would be made harder...well, I just hope that your children grow up nicer than you.

TheEgoHasLanded · 02/09/2009 20:30

lol atlantis..what are you like..?

the tories did a boys from brazil with tony blair..they cloned him and produced david "just call me dave" cameron

TessOfTheDinnerBells · 02/09/2009 20:39

Ego.... A phrase I recommend that you repeat to yourself daily: "There but for the Grace of God..."

Another one: "Ugly on the inside shows to the outside".

Then go away and look up the meaning of the word compassion.

Ewe · 02/09/2009 20:54

Have any of you actually read the Conservative document on Social Reform? They are only looking at cutting the top end of tax credit threshold, they are increasing the allowance for co-habiting couples and wanting to simplify the system.

They can't/won't just axe tax credits, it just needs to be a more efficient system. They don't appear to begrudge spending the money on tax credits, it's the system that costs millions to run that is the real problem. They are taking with the left hand and giving back with the right, it is a stupid, stupid system.

Ewe · 02/09/2009 20:59

For anyone who is interested, this is the text from the welfare reform policy re: lone parents.

5.6 Supporting lone parents
The Government is in the process of significantly tightening the rules for
lone parents.
We accept the widespread evidence that helping a household make the
transition from worklessness to work has beneficial effects for both parents
and children alike.

Our Social Justice Policy Group recommended that all lone parents with children
of school age should be expected to return to part-time work. It proposed that
those with children at primary school should be expected to work for at least
twenty hours a week and that parents with children at secondary school should
be expected to work for at least 30 hours a week.

Both we and the Government have accepted the principle behind these
recommendations. By 2010 we will inherit a situation where lone parents
with children over the age of seven will have ceased to receive income support,
and will have been transferred to Jobseeker?s Allowance. We will accept this
approach, though we will make some refinements.

We will ensure that there are important safeguards to the conditionality applied
to those on Jobseeker?s Allowance. In particular, we will ensure that the
definition of a reasonable job as applied to parents will reflect the limitations
that good parenting places on the ability to work.

We want to ensure that lone parents are encouraged to return to work, but
not forced into a position where they have to work hours that are completely
incompatible with good parenting.

In addition, our policy is to give all parents with children under the age of
eighteen the right to seek flexible working from their employers. Our childcare
strategy will also address the challenges faced by parents of school-age children.

atlantis · 02/09/2009 21:06

"We want to ensure that lone parents are encouraged to return to work, but
not forced into a position where they have to work hours that are completely
incompatible with good parenting."

Yea Conservatives. (I know I'm biased.

TheEgoHasLanded · 02/09/2009 21:07

if you read between the lines i'm actually trying to help people, trying to tell people they shouldn't rely on any government to sort their lives out.

of course there should be help for people who are in genuine need, and i'm in favour of working family tax credits...(at least those families are working)...but you have a situation now where whole generations of families are benefit dependent, they have no intention of working...why should they.?..they earn more staying at home on benefits...that is wrong.

the benefit system was brought in to be a safety net....a temporary measure to help people until they got back on their feet.

of course in some areas there isn't always a job to get, ...i would go where there was work...if immigrants from somalia can find their way here... i'm sure a northener can find london.

ilovemydogandmrobama · 02/09/2009 21:09
Hmm
daisy5678 · 02/09/2009 21:13

Yeah, London, that's a good idea! Cos the jobs are plentiful and the housing is cheap! Great plan .

The point which you seem incapable of grasping, Ego, is that everything's not black and white. Some people don't work for a reason. I agree that the rules need tightening for those who just can't be arsed, but there are many who stay at home for very, very good reasons e.g. disabled children or relatives. That actually saves Social Services an awful lot of money.

I don't really know why I'm bothering though. Your little bubble seems unpierceable.

TheEgoHasLanded · 02/09/2009 21:18

what do these people want..?

if you have to stay at home to care for a disabled relative then that's what you do....do you expect to get a couple of grand a month from the tax payer....?

i genuinely don't understand.

Janos · 02/09/2009 21:22

If Ego is who I suspect he/she is then he/she isn't in position to criticise anybody as he/she lives off his/her spouse's earnings anyway.

Otherwise, just a mean spirited and attention seeking troll not worth bothering with.

Ewe · 02/09/2009 21:23

Ego, I think the point that you are missing is that we are talking about tax credits here. Not job seekers allowance, or incapacity benefit which is typically where there are higher numbers of people who are dependent on it, don't work at all, have never had a job etc - some of these will have excellent reasons for this, some of these won't, absolutely we need sanctions for those who aren't genuinely eligible.

Tax credits however (what we are mainly discussing here!) help people in work, it is just what it says on the tin, a tax credit not a benefit. This brings up a household income to a live-able level, this is the purpose of them. Cutting them, reducing them, whatever - it will hit ordinary hard working families and lone parents hard. These are not the people who should be punished!

We need people who are willing to work for lower salaries, it is clearly not feasible/sensible/logical for everyone to be earning £40-50k pa.

2shoes · 02/09/2009 21:24

now there is a suprise, daftpunk doesn't understand caring for a loved one. do you just post to cause tha maximun upset?
people never "choose" hto have a disable relative. it just happens(it could happen to you) carers save the goverment thousands of pounds a year by doing it(fopr 17p an hour!!)
they do it because they have no choice.
If all the carers went on strike, the goverment would have to put your taxes up by a massive ammount and then you wouldn't be so rich.