Identity of Baby P's Mother To Be Revealed Tonight.

[Nancy66]

Along with that of her boyfriend.

I'm loathe to defend or protect her but that can't possibly lead to anything good can it?

The names have been fairly easy to find online for quite a while but there's a hell of a difference between having to actively look for them and having her picture splashed across the front page of The Sun as it undoubtedly will be.

SGB is, of course, quite right. Sadly it was all too predictable that Connolly might not be able to overcome what she'd experienced as a child. Doesn't mean all people who have suffered terrible childhoods will go on to be crap parents, of course, but does mean they are at higher risk of struggling or worse.

The terrible thing is SS failed her family dreadfully when she was a child - and the SWs who tried to blow the whistle on Islington were victimised, sacked and the whole thing was covered up. By Lord Laming, among others.

In the case where the judge slammed Nottingham for steaming in without a court order, the mother herself had been in care, and the judge pointed out that Nottingham had failed to recognise, much less meet, their legal duties towards her.

FWIW, my stepmother had a terrible childhood, shaped by a father who was extremely violent and eventually murdered her own mother (after she had grown up and left). She's certainly not reproduced that as a mother, although she has had her difficulties (an episode of severe mental illness).

(And my half-sister, her daughter, is a damn fine mother. So the cycle can be broken, in some circumstances.)

well yes, one mustn't stigmatise people who've gronw up in abusive or chaotic households as automatic abusers, but their risk is higher. however, from what i'm reading at teh moment, it does seem like there is a very strong correspondence in the other direction, as in you show me an abuser and i'll show you his abuser etc etc. you can generally work it back but you must be wary of working it forward.

Inbreeding is most associated with the Pakistani community. They account for one third of all children born with genetic illnesses, despite making up only 3% of the population. Even quite middle class Pakistanis seem to marry their cousins.

Aitch IIRC it's a 1/3 risk; however that means there's a 2/3 chance someone who was abused will not repeat the pattern, that's very, very important to acknowledge I think.

I once lived in a town where people were known to have the highest rate of inbredding in the UK (acording to the Police Family protection Officer).

I won't say where, but I will say it was noticeable.

'Yes, state intervention is often necessary but state intervention sometimes makes things not just no better, but a lot worse. If a child is taken from an abusive family home and put in a care home ful of more abusers, then that child is almost certainly going to be broken beyond repair'

Absolutely yes. I didn't have the best childhood and I remember (sorry- misery post,please read then forget) writing in my diary aged 16 that my biggest regret was not allowing school to have me sent away whren they asked me for permission at 14. However, I now realise that the only time being in care is better is if the childs life is at risk. Its awful it should be that way, but it fdoes seem to be a pretty horrid option in itself.

Connelly from what I have seen

A) should not be alowed out of prison, sorry but 12 years is ridiculous

B) May well be guilty, but has a line of people behind her including her aprents who should be realising that they too also share a lot of that guilt. Society needs to stand up and admit that a lot of baby P's problems were created by society long before he was ever conceived.

but it's also becoming a big problem amongst white Britons.

I'm talking about people like Baby P's tormentors, or Karen Matthews - low IQ, sink estate underclass (for want of a better word)

They tend to have lots of children by multiple partners but nobody ever leaves the area where they live. So you end up with a situation where they only socialise within their immediate few streets and pretty much everyone they interact with can be linked back to their family in some way - which is how we are ending up in the situation whereby 15 year old girls are having babies by their 30 year old uncles.

that msg was in response to someguy and about inbreeding.

' but connolly's mother appears to have been a shocking parent herself. (although as you might imagine she's telling the sun she hopes her daughter rots in hell etc etc

Saw her on TV, muttered a few very rude things.

(BTW the palce I emntioned- no Pakistani population of any great amount, indeed almost all white indigenous etc etc)

Just a lot of inbreeding

But you know-

OK, where I grew up there was 30K citizens

dad had 16 siblings, as did most of his opredecessors

My sisters and I married out of town but heck- it would have been impossible to know if I was related to anyone otherwise! I was foprever meeting people and being told by dad 'Oh thats your first cousin'- once you step back to second, third- no bloody chance.

Then you get DH's family, where his Mum has 7 siblings but only knows the name of one as the others were conceived by different women outside of marriages and the prat refused to acknowledge them, how on earth would DH have known if he'd been related to anyone from his small town?

I think it is fortunate that we have moved away from children being taken away, seemingly without any thought. I met someone recently who found out she had an aunt living in Zimbabwe: her grandmother had had a child out of wedlock, who was taken away straight away and sent to then Rhodesia for adoption (as a way to get more whites in the country. This happened a lot: children from homes in the UK were sent to Australia, NZ; SA, Rhodesia at the drop of a hat). The grandmother then went on to marry the father of the child, and have two or three more children, and they had a long and happy life together. She spent years trying to trace her first child, and they eventually managed a couple of years ago.
But now, the balance has shifted too far the other way. HOpefully some halfway house between taking children from "non conventional" backgrounds willy nilly to leaving at-risk children with their "families".

I recently read "in cold blood" by Truman Capote, which is the true account of four murders carried out in a small town in the US in the 1950s (I think). He spent a lot of time interviewing the two murderers, one from a VERY messed up abusive background (mother alcoholic, little care for children, two siblings committed suicide, one went on to have relatively normal life) and the other from a very normal, stable background (parents were farmers, very devoted family), but who had severe head trauma which may have changed his personality. the book constantly asks the question: how could they have done it? It seems the first man had a schizophrenia, and at the time of the killing was not even aware of what he was doing, until afterwards. The second man sounds a bit like Barker, enjoyed torturing animals, had paedophilic tendencies, planned out the murder in fine detail.

I wouldn't think that occasionally marrying third cousins because you didn't know would cause many genetic problems - the gene pool would be pretty diverse.

In the Pakistani community, people are marrying their cousins as a matter of custom, they are doing it very much deliberately.

No doubt the white underclass has many other, non-genetic, problems associated with this, but I don't think they are primarily genetic.

True SG

thing is, it's has (I knw this for fact) been hapepning over hundreds of years. And several of my aunts maried brothers.

And you know what, that gene pool shrinks massively pretty fdamn quickly.

These things after all aren't all about thge moment, but prodcuts of time;I know my Dads family was there in the 1600's after all!. Andwhen i trace my ancestors abck-every generation seems to sahre about 3 surnames (one of which I was enaged to ) all local,and the resulting addition effect must be significant.

btw absolutely yes, quite a lot of rellies firing on less than, my family has a bit of a name for itself IYKWIM

Sorry about typos.agitated teething abby trying to feed

I do find the genetics of class and such like quite interesting.

I wonder if you took these lads whether you could restyle them so they would look convincing as this

Not sure how much of it is cultural.

There is a theory that the bicycle saved the human race from extinction, you know: basically it meant that people could travel further away from their homes quite affordably and start breeding with people who were not their cousins/aunties. Close inbreeding over several generations is very damaging.

But then the uppser classes aren't immune to intermarrying, by any stretch of the imagionation, like say, the Royal Family. I read somewhere (I think) that the reason why it is not illegal to marry first cousins in this country (although it significantly increases the risks of genetic deformities) is because it was so essential to the Royal Dynasties' survival.

Makes it easy for her fellow scum prisoners to make sure they are kicking the shit out of the right person in the showers

are you sure this is the right thread?

Bleh: yes, upper-class inbreeding is and has been just as problematic. Think of George III and his porphyria, and the haemophilia problems half the royal families of europe have had.

Though, I did learn from QI that there was no haemophilia in the Royal Families until after Queen Vic. Which was either the result of ... someone getting jiggy with someone who had haemophilia (who was not in the Royal Families) or a 1 in 5mn genetic mutation.

Bleh, that 1 in 5mn is only suspicious if predicted in advance.

Lots of unlikely things happen to all of us every day.

Everyone know the haemophilia came about because Queen Victoria was bitten by the wearwolf did no one see that docu about it, you know the one with David Tennant and Billie Piper and the big blue box.

I am now so glad that the identies of these monsters were revealed - since it has exposed Laming's role, and his conflict of interest.

SGM - do you think that the identity of all criminals should be kept hidden?