Did anyone else see the piece in BBC news about follow on milk?

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here

It was hidden away at the bottom this morning and I thought it was very interesting. Lots of common sense in the ruling.

no its not a specific question Hercules, more a general rant that the information about different types if formula is hard to come by. Yes they all meet government standards but a lot of them also make claims that they have prebiotics, boost the immune system and so on. Then there are the comfort ranges. Some of it begs the question well does this actually work or is it marketing ploys. Aptamil, for example, seems to be well liked by a lot of people and believed to be closest to breastmilk. But is there hard evidence for that and if so where? Aptamil is charging more for their brand than others are.

Its not so much what the nhs wont tell but the lack of transparency from the formula companies.

The nhs could help by being more forthcoming about the difference or not between types of formula.

I appreciate that there are a lot of people here who are very knowledgeable on feeding issues but that doesn't mean that this information is widespread in the public domain, and getting hcps to give information on formula is like getting blood out of a stone in the present climate.

Although I see Tiktok has answered that question. (slow typing this time )

nellie - I agree with you (see previous post).

HCPs often don't know much about formula...hence them coming out with rubbish that Brand X is the 'best'

nellie12 - It's not the responsibility of the NHS or the WHO to tell people what's in formula and what those ingredients really mean for the baby. Nor indeed how to make it up safely (you'd think that these massive companies would manage to do this for themselves on the packaging, no?) The formula companies - given that they exist for profit - have the resources to do this. They choose not to. Why? Expecting the NHS, etc., to unpack the formula industry bollocks is like expecting them to list the ingredients on all foods, etc.

Isn't it utter madness that with all that advertising on TV, and in magazines - loads and loads of it -, which people on this thread have defended as necessary and useful to mothers , actually gives no information whatsoever about how to use the product safely? No - if you want a stupid visual gimmick about iron content (utterly useless, as others have said on this thread), or a totally misleading and dangerously false impression that a formula will prevent your child from getting a cold {this is MIND-BLOWING!), then formula ads are for you! If you actually want real info about these products? Go fish.

The fact of the matter is, formula companies play fast and low with their consumers.

What the government could do, on the contrary, is to ban profit making on what is, after all, essential infant nutrition (if the mother chooses not to, or is unable to, bf). It is, IMO, scandalous that an essential food (after all, babies have to drink milk of one kind or another exclusively before 6mo, is subject to market-capitalism like this. Makes me so .

Once the profit incentive is removed, let's see how much flashy, bullshit advertising goes on, or gross engineered additives are put in formula to improve their profitability. Because, frankly, capitalism isn't helping mums and babies, in this respect. Market competition isn't improving the content of formula. Only independent, scientific research could do this, I expect.

Sorry - lots of grammatical/punctuation errors in that post. Obviously I am very .

I agree penthesileia although working in the nhs (not with kids as you may have gathered!) it is probably cost effective to tell parents how to make up formula in terms of avoiding the complications and cost of badly made up formula.
To some extent the nhs and who do have some responsibility for informing us or leaning on these multinational corporations to inform us about their product because it is they who are saying we have to exclusively feed the baby milk for 6months. The price of formula is extortionate really and can vary from brand to brand. The nhs also tells us we have to ideally breast feed or to use infant formula. Cows milk after 6weeks (as my mum did ) is a no-no these days - very few mothers would do this. So the nhs and who are complicit in the profit making of these companies.

It is scandalous that so much profit is made on what is an essential food and such scarce information on them - SO how do we go about changing this practice and forcing companies to be more open?

I wonder what would happen if the NHS commissioned a generic infant formula and sold that at cost price? Or would that breach all sorts of regulations that I don't know about.

I suspect it would be an abject failure because we tend to be more influenced by packaging and advertising than we think.

I certainly was. The few times ds had formula it was Aptimal. I stood in the aisle and even though I knew it was a con I still bought the most expensive one - crayzee!

I also had some angsty thoughts about follow-on/growing up milk and wondered if ds was getting enough iron & vitamins without it. This despite the fact that ds was a great eater from day one of weaning and continued to be bf. I did give myself a metaphorical slap though and didn't buy it.

Of course the NHS do give very explicit instructions on how to make up formula safely.

There are numerous threads about how inconvenient this is though and it was ignored by everyone I know who ff.

I'd be in favour of a cheap, non-branded NHS infant formula that was produced honestly and openly - I can't think of any reason why this would be unethical or illegal. Obv, the formula manufacturers would not like it very much (though one of them would prob get the contract to produce it - they'd just have to cope with lower margins). With good consumer education, and a ban on all formula advertising (including a ban on advertising the NHS one), parents would come to understand that only an idiot would pay £7 for a pack with a bunny on, as opposed to (say) £2.50 for one in a plain wrapper.

Aptimil is targetted at women who began breastfeeding or who are mixed feeding - the formula market is segmented by targetting often on socio-economic lines, as are all markets where products are virtually identical (cigarettes is another example, soap powder another).

A friend of mine used to make her own formula.

do you think thats why aptamil is so expensive? They are making up for mixed feeders not buying as much[cynical emotion] cheap non branded nhs formula would be a good move but I can see the palaver now between the commissioning and the paranoia the nhs would be seen to endorsing ff.

Quite how we get formula companies to be more open is another conundrum (which is what they should be doing) since we aren't in a position to boycott their products if ff.

Is it actually possible to make an adequate and safe formula yourself then? I have heard of this before but never been sure - I thought the milk powder in formula had been modified to lower the sodium content. Or is it just as simple as adding all the extra gubbins to powdered milk?

Sorry, I'm skimming because I should be hoovering and cleaning but even now, even with everything I've learnt here, I still would choose Aptamil over any of the others, because it looks like a serious product, no cows on the front (ok, a tiny bear but it took a year for me to even notice that!), no frivolous colours. I know it's bollocks but the packaging would still sway me. It's ingrained now, these companies love people like me

I would definitely second a non branded formula.

I really, truly think Aptimil is more expensive because consumers (like me ) find it reassuring that they are doing their "best" by feeding their baby the "best" and best=expensive.

Mad, I wonder why you ask this question

'So where would we ideally get the information in an easy to understand, emotional mummy format'

Why do yuo add the 'emotional mummy' bit? If information pandering to that side of our personsality, it is not going to be factual and impartial.

Thisisexactly the problem we have now-allformulaadvertising does pander to our 'emotional mummy' parts. That's why it isso lamentable.

Oh come on moondog, you know exactly what I mean. It's not about pandering to a side of our personality, it's about presenting information in a way that is clear and unbiased so that you can make a decision on what to give your child that doesn't involve mws pushing products onto you, or you asking what your MIL recommends. My point was that clear information is even more of a necessity at that time. Of course I could sit here now and read up on all the different formulas but I haven't just given birth, it isn't 2am and I'm not sitting here sobbing. But I was. If there was a website, or a leaflet that you could consult that gave you the facts, wouldn't it be better than the crap adverts we are discussing?

Like it or not, at the time we are making decisions about feeding our babies, emotional mummies we are. There has to be a way for the information to get through that. We are agreed that these adverts are crap so what's the alternative?

I agree but it isn't how it came across in the initial post I read from you.
I don't want anything but facts.
I'm a grown up.
I can deal with the facts.

the Ask Dr Sears site has a comparison chart of US formulas but I don't think there's anything similar in the UK. I wonder if this is because of US freedom of information laws being so much better, or that no-one here has ever bothered to collect the information?

possibly no one has bothered putting enough pressure on formula companies,because lets face, it last trimester of pregnancy and the first few post natal months are not the time anyone is in the mood for a fight with multinationals.

As shona says the US freedom of information powers are better than here so the formula companies can take advantage of our emotional states. I think if we want more information we are going to have to demand it.

www.nct.org.uk/info-centre/how-do-i/view-43 is the link to the nct factsheet on this (again)....there may be other UK stuff but there is nothing like the Sears comparison site.

I do get what your saying tik tok. That essentially there is no difference between the feeds. However it is very difficult standing in the supermarket thinking "my god there is so much more choice than there used to be. which is less likely to make him throw up?" (different issue I know) Especially when on a limited budget so trying to step away from aptamil and mid winter so wondering which is likely to do as it says on the tin. If any for supporting immunity claims.

As they charge so much I do think they should be able to back these claims up with facts.

I posted this on another thread, but this article in the Guardian yesterday about so-called nutraceuticals (sp??? y'know, food that says it does good stuff) was interesting.

As Tiktok pointed out, they don't contain probiotics, but formulas also make health claims so I wonder if the European Food Standards Agency will be looking at these claims too?