Did anyone else see the piece in BBC news about follow on milk?

[differentID]

here

It was hidden away at the bottom this morning and I thought it was very interesting. Lots of common sense in the ruling.

The problem with advertising formula is that the manufacturers aren't interested in what is best for your baby, they are interested in selling you their product.

You are right that there should be clear, concise and unbiased information abut formula - what is in it, what it's made from and what it does. Saying it has "immunofortis" for example, is really no help whatsoever. It's just blinding you with a poncey made up name for something to make you think your baby needs it.

Formula cannot be advertised because all advertising works on the basis of convincing you that this or that product is better for you than the competition. The competition to formula is breastfeeding and attempts to convince the market that bottle is better than breast would be both untrue and harmful to public health.

Verytiredmummmy - I would strongly advise you not to have formula in the house if you want to breastfeed long term this time. IME the only thing this achieves is to undermine your resolve. You'll know better how things are going this time and should be able to plan so as to avoid the late night dash if you do formula. All the best trying breastfeeding again.

verytiredmummy my BIL advised we did that, and to this day I thank him for it. it saved my sanity tbh

verytired - sympathies for the difficult time you had

But....you say : "I think if I'd had some information about the different kinds of formula beforehand, I would have been able to make an informed choice about which was best for my baby"

Of course you should make an informed choice. How do ads with cute bunnies, spurious (and illegal) health claims, and insulting-ones-intelligence slogans help?

Would you not prefer an independent source of advice? With real facts about different sorts of formula?

The thing that makes me most annoyed about the adverts is that they don't give you any information AT ALL about the product. I mixed fed dd when she went to nursery and I couldn't find any information about the relative merits of formulas, even on the packaging there is very little. I tried hipp because I liked the idea of organic but dd didn't like that so I ended up tasting them all to see what was most like my milk! (Aptimal won, was sweetest).

I was angry that the midwife running our local hospital visit/bf workshop day - the only nhs run anti-natal class thing, refused to discuss ff - the current guidlines on making are confusing imo and it is important women are supported if they are unable or don't want to bf.

Wonderstuff - it is reasonable not to get a lot of info about ff at a breastfeeding workshop. The clue is in the name

When you sign up for a yoga class, you don't expect to be given the low down on pilates as well.

Giving group instruction in formula feeding antenatally is proscribed under Baby Friendly because it is not considered safe or effective (and safe making up of bottles is important) as well as undermining bf.

Formula choices can be discussed postnatally, and instructions on making up a bottle should be done one to one, with the mothers who need to know, preferably in their own kitchen as well as on the ward or elsewhere.

tiktok if the mw had said that i would have understood and been happy. Saying 'oh i, um, no, we are not going to discuss that' made me a bit

why have i just seen the big bucket of formula ad on itv1? when does the ruling take effect?? i am all ready to complain but need ammo.

oh i am naive. they must have just removed the bits which were ruled against.

Full adjudication here on the ASA site

But surely it is better to know what products are out there for the women who cannot bf for whatever reason.

I know after my dts were born and I couldn't bf after the first few weeks due to illness I had to learn very fast as to what was out there to feed my babies.

It isn't some big conspiracy theory and for those of us who weren't able to supply milk for our own babies the failure is hard enough without hearing all this kind of witch hunt against the formula companies. Okay, so I had no choice, did I completely let down my babies by bottle feeding despite the fact I desperately wanted to bf? Because that is what I get from this kind of thread.

It isn't a witch hunt. That is rather dramatic language. Tiktok has explained many, many times why opposing the bizarre and flawed unscientific claims of formula companies is an issue of making it better for formula fed babies... so that mothers and fathers who use formula get good information, instead of the made-up nonsense they use - as in this adjudication about a claim implying it improves immune system when clearly, it doesn't.

TwoIfBySea - advertising does not tell you anything. You do not need adverts to tell you things exist. This thread is explaining why ads are misleading - why would you want to choose your baby's sole source of nutrition on spurious claims and illegal and mystifying jargon?

I don't get it.

Surely you want good, reliable, honest information?

I don't see the point in advertising formula at all. What exactly are they encouraging because moving from formula to formula isn't really a good idea either. TBH I find the reminder once again that 'breast is best' quite upsetting in itself.

The reality is that all this talk about which is the best formula is nonsense anyway. The best formula is the one that suits your baby best. My DD hated C&G but feeds well on SMA. Trawl the threads and you will find many that say the exact opposite. Advertising doesn't exactly help you find this out.

I think that two issues are being confused here.

1. Everyone wants reliable information, that is the point of adverts being true 2)Whether or not Breastfeeding is best.

Personally I would go along with verytiredmummy and twoifbythesea. Breastfeeding is only good if it works for mother and baby. It really gets me is that there are so many sanctimonius women out there who regard those who formula feed as at best evil, and at worst child abusers.

I tried very hard to BF my baby for eight weeks, long after my Health Visitor, GP and Midwife really wanted me to stop. It just wasn't working, and unless you have been in that position when you can't feed your baby, you have no idea of the emotional pain that it causes. Then you have your nose permanently rubbed in it by the questionnaires etc which you have to complete and comments about the fact that you aren't doing the right thing by your baby.

So lets be clear here

the advert was specifically wrong because it is misleading.
The advert is not inherently wrong because it is advertising a product without which my baby (and other peoples) would be very ill.

Krystal, read the rest of the thread, esp Tiktoks points.

Advertising is about pushing someone's product above someone else's. You should get all the correct information on ff from HCP's, not a TV!

And why were your HV, GP and MW wanting you to stop BF?? I take it they were not equipped and knowledgeable enough to help you. In that case, yet again, it's HCPs that are failing women, not the women themselves. (and yes, I 'failed' to breastfeed DD1, mainly due to lack of support, partly to do with ignorance - mine)

Where are the women who regard formula feeding as 'evil' and 'child abuse'? I have never met one.

Or are you exaggerating for argumentative effect?

tiktok, an advert is just that, an advert. Lets you know what products are out there though. I'm not a complete numpty, I'm well aware of companies desiring to push their products but as I said, for those who couldn't bf then knowing what was available is important. Unfortunately it seems to be so taboo a subject that proper information is not forthcoming.

Sorry, but allowing formula companies to advertise doesn't give you more information on what is best for your child. It just shows which brand has the biggest advertising budget.
Anyone who bases their decisions on what to buy based purely on tv ads for anything is a little bit silly.

Also to mention that before having dts I had never ventured down the baby aisle of the supermarket so I didn't know what was available as the intention was to bf.

I am genuinely puzzled by the idea that people need to see formula advertisements to 'know what is out there'. There are no restrictions on the sale of infant formula. Anyone can go into any large supermarket and see, instantly, what is out there.

In fact, here is my handy cut out and keep guide for anyone who doesn't know what is out there and wants to know without going into a supermarket.

The most widely available brands of bog-standard infant formula in the UK are :

Hipp Organic
Cow & Gate
SMA
Heinz Nurture
Aptamil

Some of them have prettier boxes and snazzier logos and slicker slogans.

None of their advertisements or other marketing tells you anything beyond that.

HVs and midwives should know, and should tell you freely, other stuff, but there is a limit because there are no independent comparisons between infant formulas. Most brands of formula resemble other brands - there is really very little difference in formulation and indeed there is not allowed to be - all infant formula has to adhere to legal requirements of content.

So you need infant formula in an emergency at, say, 3 am, and someone is dispatched to the all-night store to fetch some. How will a memory of advertising help him/her discrimintate and select the 'right' one?

I think the best advice I have heard regarding which formula to buy, is whichever one they stock at the nearest all-night/sunday shop.

My choice for DD1 (Cow & Gate)was based on the fact that cows make milk and erm...yes, well, that was it really! How daft!

Tiktok, while you're 'here' can I ask a question? I am 7 months pg, DS(14 months) fed until 12 months then refused for some reason. MW says he will probably want to feed again when he sees new LO feeding. Will he be able to pick it up again, after stopping for so long? Or will he be unable to extract (!) any?? Sorry, but nobody else seems to know!

Realise you are probably going to bed now though!!