If the Tories win, Cameron will support plans to reduce the upper abortion limit

[policywonk]

yikes

I do see what you mean. why are tests pushed so much?

fio good post, sums it up really.

in answer to the OP, I really really hope the tories don't get in

sleepycat, you say

"If a woman had already carried the baby for 20 weeks and absolutely didn't want it would it be so much of an imposistion to carry it to term so it could be adopted be someone who did want it?

Certainly force should not come into it but I wonder why adoption is not a better solution? "

because asking a woman to carry on with a pregnancy that she wants to terminate so that she can essentially be an incuabtor for someone else is , IMO, more wrong than a termination.

obviously this debate has two polarised sides and some really difficult grey areas in the middle...

i also think women who terminate post 20 weeks are not using it as contraception, but are making an agonised choice

There could be mroe choices though

I know adoption doesn't always work but sometimes it does. I'd like to see it so that adoption is not viewed as worse than a termination, so that people get a fair choice.

I can't see how adoption is worse than terminating a preganancy TBH in terms of morality 9very different set of emotions I know) yet somehow it seems very looked down upon indeed.

maybe if that was changed there wold be a viable option other than keep baby or terminate, which I don't think there is for many ATM.

"If a woman had already carried the baby for 20 weeks and absolutely didn't want it would it be so much of an imposistion to carry it to term so it could be adopted be someone who did want it?

Certainly force should not come into it but I wonder why adoption is not a better solution?

Sleepycat

It was never a solution for me. How on earth would have I explained that to my 5 year old, my neighbours, my family, and the whole of my small town.

No one would have applauded me, or thought at least I didn't have an abortion, they'd have thought me a monster for giving my baby away. Not DD at that age, she'd have been confused and I imagine quite damaged by it.

Also, I didn't want to be a mother again, not then and not in 18 years when I'd possibly have got a knock on the door, or DD might have wated to find her sibling.
I never wanted that child in my life.

Of course there would have been my bf and his family too involved then (bf was, but not his family).

I couldn't do it, I couldn't have lived with it and I'd never have been allowed to get on with my life.

This way I can. Very few people know, just four, I'm in contact and on good terms now with all four, and all of us have got past it.

i would imagine that a lot of terminations are kept hidden from family and friends
continuing a pregnancy which will lead to adoption would need a lot of support and understanding from people around you
im not so sure that a lot of women would have that

Also, I was terrified I wouldn't get an abortion. Being made to wait 4 weeks pushed the time to it's limit. I was 23+1, BPAS operate until 23+5. I had a second scan the day before and I knbew if that baby was slightly bigger, that was it.
They also had me down on a reserve list, so I still didn't know if I was even getting into the clinic, and this was when I was in London.

I spent 4 weeks wondering how many tablets would kill the baby, but not me, wondering if a small car, might just do enough damage that they'd have to get rid of the baby, but I'd live, wondering how I could go on if I was refused an abortion.
I was truly as close as I've ever come to suicidal.

I was a mess for a good year afterwards, full of anger and hate.
I doubt I'd have got through the rest of that pregnancy, and I do know, I wasn't carrying it without doing my utmost to damage it.

It's a horrible thing to say, it was a horrible way to feel but it's how I felt.

If that's not damage to my mental health then I don't know what is.
I needed an abortion, and although the treatment I received was dreadful, I'm lucky to have got one.

muggle , that is horrific. and i think it is a good story to share as it it illustrates the enormous moral and emotional minefield surrounding later terminations.

there is no easy answer.. you can't 'jsut' terminate, you can't 'just' have the baby adopted, you can't 'just' get on with it.. there are repercussions whichever you go.

I share it because I want people to know there is a real woman and an awful lot of anguish behind a termination.

Just because my decision wasn't a hard one, it didn't make it an easy thing to do, or an easy time. I wouldn't wish it on anybody.
I wasn't irresponsible, and I'm affected by it now. I last had sex in January, I've been sterilised, I have an implant, we used a condom and I was still doing pg tests last month.
I've been to the GP 3 times, begging them to feel my stomach as I'm frightened I'm pg again.
It will affect me forever.
I'll be demonised forever, as a heartless, irresponsible, nasty piece of work who killed a baby who could have lived.

I'm not a monster, I do feel that life is precious, I do feel for anyone who can't have children, but I needed to do what was best for my life, and that of my daughter.

I did, but it wasn't without consequence.

oh muggle
i think you are very brave sharing that

Thank you harleyd.
I only wish people would seek out facts, and the real face behind late termination before judging.

I also wish I'd known about MN then, as I would have come here for support, and I feel knowing the site as I do now, I'd have got it and coped a whole lot better than I did.

Very moving posts, muggle.

I don't think anyone on here will, I think this is a very supportive site.

I posted on another site though (NM), and they edited my post first, and what I received was certainly not support.
BBC, and I still use that site, were no good either, after though, I didn't post before.

I felt so alone, those 4 weeks were like living in a nightmare. I had to be pregnant, not wanting to be, hating the baby, hating myself, hating my best friend, who lived two doors away and had disowned me, and having to hide it.
I couldn't tell anybody, I didn't dare cry as I knew I'd never stop, I was worried I'd do something bad to myself.
I didn't want to, but I felt so out of control I really thought I might.

I remember one night, lying in bed wondering if anything in the house would take my weight as I knew I had a dressing gown cord that would do.

I got rid of that dressing gown, and the big coat I used to hide the PG.
Even thinking of those clothes makes me feel sick.

No one ever goes through a late abortion lightly. I met 3 other girls in the clinic who I talked to, and felt terribly sorry for all of them. I was the lucky one.

Luckier than a girl covered in cigarette burns from her partner, luckier than an 18yr old receiving nasty phonecalls from her parents, luckier than a girl who wanted her baby, but knew she couldn't have it as she was unmarried.
The other girls had Mums or partmers with them and didn't venture into the TV room where we were, but they looked young. 16-17 I'd guess.

We weren't treated well at the clinic either.
We had stayed up late talking and were shouted at to go to bed, we were treated like we were a nuisance, and on a production line of naughty girls.
In trouble for being in pain, shouted at for asking for a cup of tea, made to feel like hassle for waters breaking in the night (not me, the girl in the next bed)
I had thought BPAS would be understanding, but not that clinic.

It's a horrible thing, but it's needed.
What is also desperately needed is support. To this day I've never had counselling.

Oh Muggle, I'm so sorry for everything you went through. That sounds rubbish, coming from a complete stranger, I know. But I am.

you are categorically not a monster, the only monsters are the friends and family who disowned you. the test of a good friendship is supporting someone through something awful, that you might not agree with, but putting aside personal feelings, for the benefit of someone you care for.

thank you again for sharing that muggle