Michael Jackson The Farewell

[KIMItheThreadSlayer]

I think it is a rather nice send off,
Fitting.
Nice to hear others sing his songs

dittany..we're not fence sitters..i've said countless times i think MJ was innocent...it's just you seem so sure he was guilty?

Pan- I am on the case and will recommend to DW as wel

Dittany- I am an admirer of your tenacity and rigour but I am scared by your ruthless certainty. Maybe his children and relatives would be hurt by this sort of unproven allegation?

really, you should all go away and read those maureen orth articles.

she's a highly respected journalist, winner of many awards, working for a credible magazine (i think her day job is NY or LA times). she's a Michael Jackson fan, like most of us on here. it's not tabloid speculation, it's investigative journalism.

right, aitch, i have now finished all of teh maureen orth articles, i also read recently the randy tarborelli unauthorised autobiography ( 10p in the library sale! ) and i am more convinced now, than i was before , that abuse took place. the children were groomed , taken in , slept in his bed etc etc etc

i am sure his family must be terribly hurt by all of this. i am sure that the families of the boys he might have abused were hurt and the boys themselves. don't think jordy chandler has much of a life, despite the money.

this is also pretty interesting and blessedly short

i've only re-read the first article, lulu, i fancy reading the rest of them though. i read them at source, obv, she's a good writer, isn't she? (can't comment on j randy, although he must be looking forward to the sales spike).

i love vanity fair. i had a book of dominic dunne's articles re famous trials he covered. and re his own daughter;s murder. very interesting. must dig it out

like the 'false narrative' . interesting. have hardly been on MN today as actually been reading other stuff

I thought a bit more dignity wouldn't have gone amis; the coffin on the hospital trolley for a start. Prince Michael could have removed his chewing gum. Blanket looked terrified, MJ's mother was clearly suffering up there on stage.
I was just a mess when Paris spoke at the end though. Just a little girl who's lost her Daddy
As long as they wanted to be there it's cool right?

The thing is, who apart from the accusers themself can be 100% sure that abuse did/didn't take place?
If the crime warranted the death penalty, could you honestly convict MJ of being an abusive padeophile with the evidence presented? I think throwing around accusations at an unconvivcted person can be equally disturbing, heinous as child abuse itself.
Just to add I am not 100% sure he is not guilty either.

What is he talking about in that article? collective anmesia? erm no, people just have the remarkable capacity to understand that compexity does not nullify sense. To be able to accomodate paradox. The concept of the fatal flaw is not new, nor is the deeply flawed hero or the connection between madness and creativity.

This is however something the media seems incapable of apreciating. It is not narritive revision or false narrative (whatever that actually means) it is what it is. People are capable of feeling more than one emotion at the same time and of a sense of propriety, not to mention fair mindedness. There is endless time for the cultural autopsy. There is no rush.

What's he on about re Kirt Cobain vs Pearl Jam. Doesn't he know the legacy Nirvana left? Doesn't he get their historical significance? For people who genuioely believ that history has ended, maybe not.

The obits are not rewriting history, they are part of it.

Will someone please turn out the lights when the last postmodernist leaves!

eh, you've got to laugh.

I'm with you, tiredsville. Regarding the abuse allegations, I've never been 100% convinced of his innocence, but I couldn't say at this point that he was deffo guilty beyond reasonable doubt.

The VF article(s) read like a Greek tragedy. Everyone had an agenda, and seemed to be out for themselves, including MJ's own mother who allegedly asked him for $250,00 after sitting through the criminal trial . The whole episode is just so grubby.

I am sorry that he wasn't found guilty as it would have meant a prison sentence where he would be forced to detox (one would hope) and maybe take a bit of responsibility for his actions?

What a waste of such a great talent

it strikes me that there are a great many mj fans who'd struggle to spell paradox, far less accommodate it, mt.

i thought the article raised the interesting point that it benefits the papers in sales terms to paint him as a nice guy first, to dig him over later at their leisure. there's probably some truth in that, papers need to catch the public mood, and our first instinct when anyone dies is 'oh shame'. the whitewashing for the moment is to their benefit, but it will not last. and we are not subject to the same sales targets as the papers so we can discuss his probable paedophilia if we wish. now, or in the future, thanks very much.

aitch...are you saying a great many MJ fans are thick?

i think i am, yes, some of them. and utterly mental, judging by the hysteria surrounding him. have you read those orth pieces yet, dp? i really recommend them.

only just got back on-line ...will deffo read them tonight..

which paper are you on aitch..times?..guardian?

his addiction to prescription drugs would surely have coloured his judgement too? that rarely gets a mention

i always forget he was a handsome, talented , black man, you see the picutres/video from before all the srugery and he was striking and good looking, immense talent that was totally overshadowed by his lifestyle

i'm never goiing to tell you, that would be a crazy thing to do online. enjoy the articles.

i know, you see the images from thriller and want to be his pal and say 'that's enough surgery, michael, you're gorgeous'. i always wonder how he felt when he saw footage of himself as a youngboy, whether he recognised himself as the same creature.

lol aitch...i didn't expect you you tell me...you could be a journo for the fly fishing monthly or grimsby gazette for all i care..

think the surgeons who carried on operating on him to the point his nose started collapsing were totally unethical.

i actually liked the jacksons better...

i am happy to confirm that it is neither of those, dp.

i think the people who surrounded him seem to have been entirely without ethics, lulu. his family seemed nice, i thought, genuine etc, and jermaine and latoya seemed nice on cbb. but they CAN'T have been, jermaine CAN'T have 'had his back', surely? i mean would you let your brother become that freak? it's bonkers.

not the man in the mirror