Michael Jackson is dead

[QOD]

sad

But it is possible that children lie about these things, I have not said that any particular child has lied, I have said its possible, or its possible they get the facts wrong, wires crossed, unreliable memories, and ideas put into thier heads, if these things were'nt possible there would be no need for trials.

hey there were a LOT OF Kids who lied and he himself incriminated himself.

i dont think most people think ther eis any doubt that he acted inappropriately.
if they do think he was ok then tbh they arent worth disgreeing with imfo

I'm just stumped to find so many otherwise normal-sounding women who feel moved to try and put a positive spin on child abuse because the bloke could moonwalk and sang some nice songs as a child

unbelievable

Children do lie, they do confuse things, but in the MJ case it is hard to believe, Jordan Chandler can intimatley describe MJs penis, he also kept a detailed diary of what was going on and his confusion about it,(a book was published later based on this, although that in it self is very suspect, maybe a money spinning project!) although he could have seen his genitals accidentely he could have been coached to write the diary, who knows. But imo I think it is important to listen to a child and not be convinced otherwise because of a manufactured persona, driven by men who had millions to make.

I personnaly think, yes something went on, would I say it out loud, no I have no proof, there was no court case, you can prove otherwise.

It is not a positive spin on child abuse at all, he was cleared in a court of law, like I said I have a male friend who was accused of the same thing, he was also cleared in a court of law, and he certainly cant moonwalk and he sings like a strangled cat.

he was cleared becuase he had money
i hate that " court of law" expression
rather than a tennis court?

My friend was cleared because he was innocent, if he had money would that automatically make him guilty?

he was just lucky
you cant be an expert on ALl child abuse cases either because you were abused or had a mate who was falsely accused, life just isnt like that.

therefore this thread is spinning into a frenzy of anecdotal evidence.

I never said I was an expert, i'm giving my opinion, and how do you mean 'he got lucky'? I would'nt call being falsely accused getting lucky, or are you suggesting he got away with it? Christ, hope it does'nt happen to someone you know.

He was lucky that a patchy legal system got him the right result.
It doesnt always happen and any fule no that the better lawyer you have the better result you get.
not right but true,

Again, not lucky, he should never have even been in that situation, he still has abuse hurled at him in the street, from adults who dont know him, and even children who were not even born when the accusations were made, so even though he was cleared he is still paying for a crime he had not committed, and probably always will.

very sad
Im off now

What a good idea, go for it!!

And now I hear on the lunchtime news that Jackson's family are going to sue his medics.

T'is just a serpent feeding on its own tawdry entrails.

Jackson was cleared in court. In a city OBSESSED with celebrity status - I mean just crazily so. Unless you've spent time in LA you simply cannot imagine it. Fame is everything.

The fact that their court cases are televised doesn't help. Who remembers the OJ trial? The prosecutor releasing daily details of who was supplying her designer dresses and shoes, the judge wearing make up and crying (into camera!) making some tearful tribute to his wife....all in the hope of getting his own talk show after the trial.

The Jackson jury were all allowed to sell their story - and then several of them appeared on TV or gave newspaper interviews in which they said: 'actually I think he might have done it after all' but admitted they were blown away by having Michael Jackson sitting in the court room.

that's the LA legal system for you.

I am totally uninterested in trying MJ on this thread.

Eugene, however cynical you may feel about the legal system, just be glad that one day you and your loved ones actually can have recourse to trial in a Court of Law (not a Tennis Court) to protect your freedom and human rights against false accusations.

God, it's such a freakshow. In terms of his own legacy, he died 20 years too late, IMO.

Obviously, if he had a good relationship with his own children, I am sorry for their loss, and his family's.

However, I'm a bit bewildered why people are generally so split on this one. It's pretty simple to me.

He was a very, very talented singer, dancer, song-writer, performer, etc. Whether you liked his music or not, I do feel that's reasonably undeniable. He was a magnetic person: people had to look at him, and whatever he was doing. Some people have "it": Elvis, Marilyn Monroe, etc. Most don't. Michael Jackson, at least until the early 1990s, had "it" in abundance; after that you stared at him for different reasons...

He was also, probably by dint of his upbringing, spectacularly fucked up. Last time he experienced anything resembling a "normal" life, he was 4 years old.

It is not hard to believe (without detracting at all from his musical talent), that he sexually molested children, although I'm sure that - in terms of the relationships he had with the children he befriended - the line between "care" and "molestation" became horrifically blurred and problematic (not excusing it, just pondering the probability that - on both sides, though of course MJJ as the adult bears full responsibility - there was, at some point at least, affection, which deteriorated into abuse of power). "Man denied normal childhood seeks emotional satisfaction from children" shocker. That he was not found guilty is not the whole story, I fear. I think it is possible that he systematically behaved towards children in a way in which no parent would feel comfortable.

I think people who are fans feel they need to exculpate him or excuse his behaviour in order to protect his talent. Not so. Likewise, those who see only the freakshow somehow feel that this denigrates the music. Again, why?

All of that was a rambling and incoherent statement of the fact that artists are not always moral individuals.

Does anyone know if Jordy Chandler is gay??

Jordy chandler must be what? lates 20s?

He's never spoken but I bet he'll come out of the woodwork now.

I wonder if there is a direct correlation between those who are fans of his music and those who think he was innocent?

I would'nt call myself a fan, I like some of his music, and like to watch his videos, but I dont and never have owned any of his albums.

I wonder how much he has (or his estate has) clocked up in royalties in the last 24 hours, his records have been played non stop

A lot of spectacularly good artists, poets, playwrights were completely repulsive characters. Sadists, facists, rapists, child molesters ... Doesn't stop them from being hung in the Louvre or their plays from being performed or whatever. Think it's necessary to divorce the art from the artist.

All the speculation about the artist himself is totally unhealthy IMO. He was tried and found innocent. What can you make of a man who had his own disney park and chimp and small children over for sleepovers other than he was spectacularly innocent.