Light sensors cause religious row

[OldLadyKnowsNothing]

Story here.

Maybe they should just move?

Morningpaper, since you know more about Judaism than I do. What happens if the beliefs of a jewish tenent contradict the beliefs of another tenent? (in something that affects them both like the lights) Do they both have to commit suicide or do religions have ranks to sort out which matters more?

Aren't they offering to pay for a manual override for the lights on the Sabbath? Why on earth would anyone object to that? As I understand it, when they bought the property they were assured that sensors would never be introduced. I'm shocked that neighbours could be so unaccomodating.

Wouldn't the manual override result in the lights being on all day? I know it's just one day but who is going to pay for the resulting rise in the electrical bill?

I assumed it meant that people would be able to switch them on / off on that one day rather than them coming on in response to movement.

Isn't it a broadly similar situation to the many schools where all meat is Halal due to the presence of a significant number of Muslims? I'm not thrilled about Halal meat on animal welfare grounds but would never dream of objecting.

But talbot the couple would need the lights to be on for 24 hours.

If the lights were off and it was dark, they wouldn't be able to see thier way down the stairs. As they are unable to use the switches, lights would need to be left switched on for the whole of the Sabbath for thier safety.

I'm no electrician but I just Googled manual override with motion sensors and got this.

''MANUAL OVERRIDE
To keep the light on regardless of the motion, you can
override the Automatic Operation.''

So it seems that the light would be on all day.

My Grandfather owned a Butchers shop and my father was a meat inspector and manager of the local abbatoir - both thought Halal meat was cruel.

But that's a whole other thread....

And they are not just asking, but accusing everyone of religious discrimination because they can't get their own way.

There were reasons for the sensors and many feel quite strongly about energy waste, but that doesn't matter because being Jewish overrides other people's needs. I'm sure most Jewish people who manage to get along with neighbours must be wincing over this.

Well presumably it depends on where their flat is situated in the building. Previously they seemed to have had manually operated lights and as I'm assuming they didn't switch those on, then I'm guessing they could make their way out safely.

In any case, I really struggle to believe that one day of communal lights being on (as opposed to them going off and on constantly which uses a lot of electricity on its own), could really make that much difference to electricity bills.

Of course the halal/kosher thing is a different issue but my point is that many of us have to make adjustments to accomoodate others' religious beliefs and I would hope that most so it with good grace.

Well considering the emphasis that is being put on saving energy, rightfully so considering that fossil fuels are a finite source,I believe it would be inappropriate to have the lights on all day.

Turning lights off and on doesn't really use more and the government are banning certain kinds of lighting because it really matters that we save energy.

Personally I don't think it does matter that much, but that's not what our country is doing right now so I don't see why a religion can give anyone the right to override that.

I'm going to miss 100w bulbs because I need them to read by so I might tell gordon brown that he has to allow them to be sold again to suit me.

Well all I can say is that if a neighbour came to me and explained that the introduction of sensors would mean that they were unable to leave their flat for 24 hours then personally, I'd be prepared to leave the lights on.

I'm afraid I just can't get worked up about the wasted electricity in the communal area of one block of flats for just 1 day a week when every school and hospital I ever vist is grotesquely over-heated and the London skyline of office buildings is ablaze with lights at 3am.

I can't help wondering what Moses might have made of this

I don't think that's acceptable either but it's no reason to encourage more waste.

I don't think this would be a reasonable adjustment. I can't understand such extremes in a religion, any religion. This would be a non issue for many conservative/liberal and reform Jews.
I think it's crazy I really do when it restricts your life so much.

Well I agree with you on that TD - personally I think that all religion is twaddle but that's just my view.

As I say, my views on Animal Welfare mean that I'm not thrilled at my kids eating halal meat but I'm willing to suck it up in the greater cause of tolerance.

Well I believe your animal welfare beliefs are just as important as religious beliefs.

I do think there are some things that are wrong, not thinking of a specific issue here, and that culture/religion should not and does not excuse any and all acts.

I was under the impression, possibly mistaken, that fluorescent tubes use one big "shot" of electricity to kick start them and that thereafter it is more cost-effective to leave them on, than forever to be switching them on and off.
If this is true, then why don't they use fluorescent lights in this flat block and just leave them on all the time?

Trouble is that once you acccept the principle that their religion overrides other people's rights how do you draw the line?

It's been a long time since I read Leviticus, but I seem to recall a law against women crossing running water during menstruation.

Suppose the pipes run under the floor in the hallway? For several days a month you might have to use bottled water and not flush the toilets in all the flats to avoid the water running in case someone needed to cross it

"what Moses might have made of this"

Moses, would have solved the problem by having them kill all the people who make light sensors so I guess you could call these people quite moderate

could they not climb through the window and thereby avoid the sensor altogether? that's what I would do. is climbing through windows on the list of banned activities?

Well I broadly agree with you GO but in this case, personally I see the extra expense in electricity bills as being less of a problem than someone else not being able to leave their flat for 24 hours. Not being able to flush your loo would be a bit different. Quite like your idea of smoting all light-sensor manufacturers though...

Yes, LED lights is the way forward, I reckon.

I'm quite glad I've turned atheist now.

PM, I've only recently turned atheist. Just one day I suddenly thought "what a load of guff" and that was that.

Trouble is that once you acccept the principle that their religion overrides other people's rights how do you draw the line?

As far as I know, there isn't actually a human right to have motion-sensitive lights in public hallways

I may be wrong of course