Nick Duerden in the Guardian - His wife "leaves me fully alone with my daughter for the first time" at 16 months!

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Is this normal, for a father to not be left with their child alone until they are over a year old?

Ahhh!!!! I knew it would come out eventually, an obsession with house prices. There's your middle class credentials!!

Libras, I think you're being a bit harsh. Nick was writing from personal experience. Nowt wrong with that. nowt wrong with that, as his experience is as valid as any other. Nothing wrong with it appearing in a national newspaper either. But did the Guardian Family editor think, aw that's lovely, or did they put it in to provoke us - as it most certainly has. Any idea Nick? Can you see why some were a little annoyed by it at least? Are you amused or horrified by us. Go on, let rip..

smee/nick it is out of context, in the first post here you said it was in reaction to your fathe leaving you and you not wanting to follow the same path, this wasn't mentioned in the article.

You still haven't explained the "initially reluctant father" thing.

Okay, sorry, just reading the various posts and, yes, I do type slowly. Two fingers. I edited the piece myself, and what I wanted to convey was this: fear for father-to-be goes on the biggest learning curve of his life convinced he will fail and, for the time being at least, doesn't fail but rather grows to love his new role with an enthusiasm that surprises him. Do I think it was successful? Yes, but then I guess I'm biased, aren't I?

And as for those that empathised, or at least suggested they did, I guess they experienced similar feelings. Two mothers I know, who don't necessarily like me very much and therefore don't need to suck up, told me upon reading the book that they had felt precisely the same as I had. To a lesser degree, so had my own wife.

I don't for a second expect everyone to empathise, sympathise or even care really with a southwest London meeja type who, if he could afford it, would move to north London like a shot, but then it would be impossible to appeal to everyone. I was given the opportunity to tell my story. I felt incredibly grateful to be able to do so, and I did it.

I identified with Nick Duerden's piece. My ex husband once climbed out of the window and went for a walk leaving DS1 screaming after I told him to just 'change the stinky nappy for crying out loud'. I once arranged to play in an old girl's hockey match and then attend a school reunion afterwards. The trip involved a 6am start and an overnight stay. My ex husband rolled home at 3am, the worse for wear and I felt unable to leave my baby with his own father.

I read the article and I did think 'tad self-indulgent and totally m/class' but that is the very nature of first person pieces - you can hardly avoid self-indulgence - so that really is unfair criticism nor can one individual be blamed for the wankery of the Guardian Family section - I still read it every bloody weekend! - so who is the true wanker - me for buying it!!??

Re my middle-class credentials, Slug: born and unfortunately bred in Peckham, single-parent family, council accommodation, no shoes on my feet till the of 16. But, yes, a screaming toff now?

Voltaire

I'm not surprised many women felt the same as you Nick. The point is, it is simply not sociably acceptable for women to ask, as you did, for sympathy and validation, in such a public way, for something millions of people do every day. They are simply told, as I wanted to shout at you all the time while reading your article, to 'grow up'.

Feck off Nick, I can out-deprived-upbring you any day of the week. I'm quite proud of my collection of degrees and unashamed intellectualism.

'parenthood has finally become fun' !!!! so he threw up when his partner told him she was pregnant and sounds so very reluctant and has the cheek to say at 16m parenthood has finally become fun!

what was he doing for the first 16mo of his daughters life not to notice how amazing babies are?

I have very rarely left my dp with dd as he is an idiot perhaps he gave this man some stupid tips.

I long for a partner who would love his dd more than he loves himself.

seems the pathetic excuse for a man isn't alone, there are oh so many out there.

But ex husband was/is a very decent and lovely specimen, just hopeless at fatherhood.

That is rubbish Voltaire

My dh would probably identify with Nicks piece too.

So perhaps you could help me Nick and explain why Men (a lot of them) seem to think women have an innate ability to iron and look after children? It still riles me that after spending my twenties in drunken depravity (some of it with my dh!) dh thought that I would immediately turn into the mother of the year when ds1 was born! I did not have that faith!?? Enlighten us please?

I would like to see an article by a woman with a "decent and lovely specimen" of manhood as a partner, who happens to be bad at fatherhood. I want to know why any self-respecting woman would find such a man appealing as a partner and co-parent.
Rather than hearing from a man how scary this parenthood business all is.

Hello Smee. I didn?t expect it, no. Naïve, I?m sure, but there you go. I think my response to the pregnancy was shameful, but that was the point at which I realised my world was about to change, and I reacted instinctively.

And you are right, Slug, I needed to grow up, at least in terms of being mature enough for children. Before my daughter came along, I wasn't. And now? Well, now I am working on it.

Libras, I was initially reluctant for all sorts of reasons. I come from a tiny and now virtually non-existent family. None of my friends had children. No peer pressure and, frankly, no real interest in settling down with kids. I explain this more fully in the book, but I don't want to bore you with that here and now.

Nick, thanks for coming on here.

My problem with articles/books such as yours are they make me want to shout NO ONE ELSE'S FAMILY IS THAT INTERESTING.

You can't pick up a middle class paper these days without being subjected to an article detailing the minutia of someone else's experience as a parent.

I am going to have to swear here.
The details of MY family life are so bloody dull why would I want to read anyone else's?

And what would you have done if that reluctance hadn't disappeared? I just find it odd someone would TRY and have a child whilst not being sure they wanted one, THAT is a selfish attitude.

How much did you get paid for the article Nick? And does the fact that you have now discovered a revenue stream in parenthood mean you are warming to it a little more?

Libras - I read it that although he agreed to the idea of having children, the actual positive pregnancy test is still a shock because it makes it real.

Not sure how that ties in with his own description of himself as a reluctant father.

Trillian you might have got that from the article but he then shoots himself in the foot here:
"Libras, I was initially reluctant for all sorts of reasons. I come from a tiny and now virtually non-existent family. None of my friends had children. No peer pressure and, frankly, no real interest in settling down with kids"

I do think that most of the fathers I know are totally competent.

Lots of them are farmers, mind, so well used to udders and birthing.

I would not worry too much about being tiddly in case of a baby - as long as the baby is sober - otherwise my entire social life would be dead on its feet.

I loved Cusk, although I think the more common theme for fathers is the experience of women gate-keeping baby tasks and making fathers FEEL incompetent. I would be interested to know more about how THAT is experienced. And the idea that it takes 16 months for you to experience normal parenting responsibility is very sad IMO.

I did like lots of bits of the article though

Hello BigMouth. I don't think women necessarily have an innate ability for that, but I do know that we specifically had children because my wife told me that she now wanted them (and once she didn't) and so instinctually she took the lead. When our daughter was born, she confessed to feelings of confusion much like myself, but she threw herself into the task wholeheartedly. I basically watched her and learned from her. She does iron much better than I do, it's true, but I do cook, I do wash the dishes. We split things fairly 50-50 not only because that is the right thing to do, but because she wouldn't accept anything less.