for fucks sake leave breastfeeders alone

[ohmeohmy]

aaargh, news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7867686.stm twunts.

god, no. i'm one of the world's worst bfers but i tried both times.

come on, try again. come up with some actual names. no-one will mind, by definition they're self-professed. find me the people who profess to be experts.

'self-proclaimed', sorry.

oh, and completely the done thing, bffriend. but not sure i can help, though, as have chequered history in that arena.

AitchTwoOh,
I was a little more sympathetic to your point of view until reading your response to my post and have to agree with bobysmum on this one. I am very well aware of the tone of the messages I received and encouraging is not a way I would describe many of the posts! I even had a page long rant on the many inevitable health complications I was foisting upon my child. SO no, I'm afriad I have to disagree and I think the strength of stancetaken by some on here could actuvely put mums off bf! Ironic and very sad.

i'm interested, have you gone and looked at the thread recently, lj? it will still be accessible if you can remember your chat name then.

i know when i was giving up bfing NO ONE could say anything right to me. and as for one person going off the deep end, i'd be very surprised if they weren't jumped all over by the majority of posters, but that's another thing that it's hard to see when you're in the throes of giving up.

perhaps bobbysmum is an HV?

I was reading this thread with interest and it was ticking along nicely until you chipped up bobbysmum. Why the need to start slagging people off who have only ever tried to help? And why so offensive? opinion is respected so much more if one is polite about it.

I'm going to have a short rant: time and time again on here those who BF are accused of being militant, nazis and argumentative, yet as far as I can read, from the hundreds of threads on this topic, and I will find some threads to back up my assertions (just not tonight), it's a failed BFer with issues that turns the thread sour with this sort of accusation...every fucking time

Think I'll back away from this thread now as a) I'm sure I could find the post if I could be bothered, but you know, I think Aitch you are here to be antagonist and your (albeit unspoken) assumptions that I was probably a little confused and dazed to lack any type of perspective or ability to way up arguments is I was about to say offensive but have now decided boring! This is exactly why mumsnet is a let down on this topic, despite being great for many other things. Oh and it's a not a let down just because I didn't bf, it's the lack of honest objective debate I can't stand. So I'l leave you all to be patronised by AitchTwoOh and put a plea out for bfs who are empathetic and objective to get on here and provide better support for new mums, sadly as it didn't work for me, I can;t be one of the.

oh, how lovely we have decended into the whole militant breastfeeders again...nice...

see, it pisses me off no end...militant breastfeeder is very offensive....I mean, no one is going around calling people militant formula feeders or formula feed nazis....so, why oh why do people have to call bf'ers militant...

and anyway, medical training, for your information, does NOT include any knowledge of phsysiology of bf or how to support bf...therefore a bfc may NOT have any medical training, but they most certainly will be more trained in bf than your average m/w etc...which is unbelievable really and unbelievably sad..because the support should be coming from the proffessionals it should NOT be up to volunteers...but it is...sad sad sad...

that was to bobbie, I suppose...
sorry but it gets my goat....
no opinion on the Article...

oh come now... just link to the thread. i bet you any money it's not as bad as you're saying, you're just being a bit shitty with me now and i've done nothing to deserve it.

post the link. have the courage of your convictions, if i'm wrong i'll totally apologise.

"your (albeit unspoken) assumptions that I was probably a little confused and dazed to lack any type of perspective or ability to way up arguments"

and ffs, it's totally unreasonable to take offence at assumptions that you yourself concede i didn't actually type. lol.

what i think is that, if you were anything like me, you were raw, raw, raw and sensitive and heart-broken and picking up on the worst of the sentiments typed and possibly ignoring more palatable ones. i personally never experienced self-loathing like when i was being crap at bfing by little baby. as i say, there was nothing right that could be said.

ljhooray, the debate was reading as very objective to me until bobbysmum decided to throw in her helpful and objective opinion.

All Aitch has done was defend herself and others and say how she felt when she was in the throes of giving up. I can't see where she has patronised you.

Round here babies weighed on days 3-4 and the MW always asked to see nappies, or else changed baby herself while here. I realise that I may just have a very clued up MW though. There is definately a need for better training of ante and post natal HCPs.

The article, well some things could be put a little better and it was a bit of a wasted opportunity to give some info on how to get help and information when things are going wrong, but it's a legitimate story.

My postnatal bf support wasn't perfect, but the more I read I realise it was bloody good compared to most. We were told to watch out for the poo changing colour, that the nappies should be heavy and ds was weighed on day three.

Across the city though, my friend thought bf was going well, was told by three different HCPs that bf was going well...until her dd was hospitalised with dehydration because it had not been going well. She tried to resume bf after she got home but her confidence was shot - she didn't fail at bf but there are three midwives who should have been very ashamed of themselves. They failed - badly.

Sorry, I take it back, I will come back on this one because actually I don't want for moment for people to think I've tried to hijack this is some sort of 'here go the bfs again' style rant tha I agree with the last two postersit can decend into. Think I got dragged by AitchTWoO's condescening tone. So would like to apologies if anyone thought was laying into bf because it was absolutely not my intention. However, back onto the article, I suppose I find the whole type o debate on this intiguing as I can say I read it as laying into bf and find it very interesting that if anything IMO we tip toe around the ff issue more because of the Govt stance. I actually agree that more emphasis should of course be given to bf but wonder why we can't truly weigh up both.

Do we have to call mums that weren't successful at breastfeeding failed BRer's I find it insulting like we're some kind of lesser species.

And no I don't have ishoooos which is another insulting phrase I get fed up with being used.It kind of infers we're all screwed up.

To be frank if the 2 phrase were banned I think bfeeding discussions would be far more productive.

I realised after I clicked post thread that "failed BFers" was an unfortunate choice of words MilaMae (I should know better) although I think you'll agree that it is much less offensive on the whole than "militant BFers" or "BFing Nazis", no?

why do i have a condescending tone? you're reading things that aren't there, lj. i'm sharing with you the way i felt, and proposing that something similar may have happened to you. you could prove me wrong, of course, in about thirty seconds.

mila. ishoos in this instance was to infer that bobbysmum07 is all screwed up... not you, or many of us who have gained some perspective on our inability to bf and how relevant that is to being an excellent parent.

and I have no issues with saying that I failed to BF my DS1. It's a statement of fact.

Please could ljhooray or bobbysmum07 link to these nasty threads as I would like nothing better than to have a real reason to have a go at aitch or some of these other nasty women. Thanks

oh and

and erm

Yes I agree, I think there should be a ticker with all 4 listed as being phrases not recommended for use when discussing bfeeding. I think things would get far less heated.

not a ticker MM...please not the T word ; a disclaimer at the top would be better. I suggested a disclaimer to MN a while ago but they haven't actioned it

lol Daisy...oh yes, ticker are no go....

and fwiw, I thnk Aitch tends to be a real reasonable voice in bf-discussions, because she really sees both sides...iykwim...so, really not sure what aitch is meant to have done!

That's interesting I wonder why not. Perhaps you should try again with the 2 I mentioned too then it would be fair(2 each) iykwim

failed bf'ers is unkind

Sometimes it is right to advise a mum to'ignore' a hv (I'dfarrather say take advice advisedly) , for exampl emine who told me I was unable to bf as I cannot drink milk- clearly wrong. I am,as it happens,morequalified in bf than my hv (but am not a counsellor).

However this often seems to be weight gain related and theadviceshould always be to check bab has frequent wet nappies, regular dirty ones andis settled and put to breast frequently

A babywith wet nappies is getting fluids.

If I ever advised a mum otherwiseI am sorry.

I think itsa shame mums who ff feel targetted; ff probably saved ds1's life. But nonetheless bf-ing ds4 has been immensely rewarding and I am grateful to have had the chance.

I did not fail to feel dd. Dd failed to feed from me.