for fucks sake leave breastfeeders alone

[ohmeohmy]

aaargh, news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7867686.stm twunts.

PeachyHasABrokenKeyboardSorry on Tue 17-Feb-09 22:46:53

"A babywith wet nappies is getting fluids."

Can we repeat- if they are wet enough to fall with a Thud.

Just a bit wet may not be enough. Didn't keep dd out of hospital.

Listen for that Thud!

I don't feel insulted at being called a failed b'feeder. I tried to do something (b'feed) and couldn't do it (ie I failed).

Thanks vcory I did read that- but I have a baby in my arms and cant type toomuch without waking him(and as he'slatched on he will bite me )

I already said "failed BFers" was an unfortunate choice of words peachy and that I should know better

I was having a rant though and we all say things in a rant that are ill advised

As I am guilty of not having read the whole thread, I may be repeating - but I felt that an important point that could have been raised in that article is that strict limitation of feeding times/ periods is more likely to lead to dehydration than bf'ing itself.

My DS had poor latch because of tongue-tie - if I had decided to try any of the feed-4-hourly regimens, especially the feed for only 15 mins (or whatever) then for sure DS would have been thirsty, hungry and bloody miserable. As it was, we fed for approx 2hours at a time until the tongue-tie was snipped - and he was demand-fed (and still is at 14mo).

This could have at least been mentioned in the article.

love i wasnt criticising anyone in particular! please dont think that- therewas probably a long time elapsed between start of typin and end anyway lol, bad night with kids

most pstwas a irectresponse to the upset posters.... was worried I'd been one of the meanies they referred to, as sometimes my posts do get taken the wrong way

Well I do feel insulted as do plenty of others.

Just replying to Hazy, I know you regret your choice of words Daisy.

I don't. I blame dd. It's a habit of mine

For thumbwitch, yes good point. That was part of the problem for dd. But the main big problem was her falling asleep at the breast, because she was so weak.

no worries peachy. lol at your name change

Mila please dont

it was a phrase that used to hurt me too but you dolive with it in the end

i am a firm believer in bfand I battled hardwith allmine: some didnt work out (it was tiktok that saved it with ds4:note that,even as a unicef trained person it still took someone else).

yet even then I know BF is just one of the things you can do to give your children a good start. 9 years down the line with ds1 I can assure you therewill bemany chances to do things, some you'll take others you won't.But thereshouldnt be a sense of failure because you didnt. your baby is(I presume) here, happy and loved and that matters

my life will have meant something if the advice to 'listen for the THUD' becomes mn lore.

Although I don't like the failure phrase I am fine about it all now Daisy after having 2 ill, 1 admitted it does put it all in perspective. I could have hugged the formula tin when we got home with DD

I honestly did what I could, battling on simply wasn't an option for me so I've never focused on the could I have bf longer than 6 weeks,would have loved to obviously.

Yes they're all fighting fit and I do a pretty good job most of the time(maybe not this afternoon)

Off to bed now got to get some sleep,day 3 of the hols tomorrow(I'm knackered already)

No that was Peachy wasn't it-sorry, I need my bed

I felt the same after giving up with DS1

bobbysmuym, I am mystified. I am a breastfeeding counsellor, and I never, ever, ever tell mothers to ignore what their doctors or HVs are saying to them . Sometimes, when it is justified, I will raise questions the mother can ask the doctor or HV, or share information which the mother can in turn share with them.

I will post links to websites which help a mother seek out info for herself.

Occcasionally, posters will say in response to a mother's concerns 'this worked for me and I think you should try it' and when I see it , I try to remind people that what worked for them may not be appropriate for everyone.

When you make accusations about breastfeeding counsellors telling mothers of 'starving' babies to ignore their HVs, bobbysmum, you have to link to the threads.

Otherwise people will think you are mistaking mumsnet for a different forum, that you are exaggerrating (to put it politely) or misremembering, and people like me get justifiably annoyed at being lumped in with a possible fantasy.

Ditto for you, lj - you have to post a link to thread . It's only fair.

wot tiktok said.

"now people are going to be swayed off of bf because of some stupid journalist"

Oh, I'm cross now.

That article was NOT overwritten. It was factual, it was NOT irresponsible. And pointing out the obvious, it was written by a human being with feelings (not me, in case you get any ideas!). But just because she's a journalist doesn't give you the right to abuse her.

The article made it perfectly clear it was talking about a rare condition, and went to a great deal of trouble to put it in context. Some of the posts on this thread come dangerously close to the idea that you should suppress all discussion of any complications associated with breastfeeding, for the Greater Good. That's a dangerous idea in any context. Not discussing it would be the irresponsible thing.

And you wonder why the neonatalist compares it to a religion? This kind of outrage at any sort of sensible discussion of bad outcomes, no matter how rare, is precisely what he's getting at.

IMO tiktok is very good at spotting the "danger signals" that bfing may be running into problems, and advising real life help, and supporting top-ups (by EBM or formula) where necessary. she's not one to say - baby not putting on weight, HV is talking bollocks, there there dear.

re:failed bfer - I don't mind the phrase, as it just sums things up succintly, without going through the sorry saga of re-admission iyswim. but sorry you dislike it MilaMae.

Agree that TikTok and other properly qualfied posters give brilliant, careful and thoughtful advice and I don't think they cause problems here at all. However I do agree that the idea that many HVs and GPs are completely uniformed and regularly give out outdated and completely false advice is very previlent on MN. I agree this idea is spouted on thread after thread.
I have had nothing to do with HVs, but from ready MN this was certainly the impression that I had of HVs and their (not all of them obvioulsy) ability to offer reliable bf advice.

I think the hard bit is-

If I read a post about thinking of swapping to ff I am scanning for clues as to what Mum wants: sometimes a mum might feel she needs 'permission' to ff and be looking for that validation, in which case I will post something about having done their best and baby having gained much bf for however long. Because that is true and thelast thing any mum needs to hear is negatives.

At the most basic evel a Mum on here asking questions is a good caring Mum and we need to acknowledge that.

If Mum seems to want to continue with BF then I will try and help.

The problemscome in two ways I think- firstly if I misinterpret Mum'sneeds which I hope is rare but always possible on an internet absed forum. Then when other mums come on and read pro bf posts and it touchesan open sore or just something they dislike.

The thing about threads is theyhave a life of their own and do develop very quickly beyond the OP: when it's someting such as BF tehre is a likelihood occasionally someone will see something other than the way it was intended. Posters dont know your background either- unless I type an autobio each time a poster won't know I have both FF and BF.

If there's stuff I type that upsets people I want the mto know that I ahve never in my life deliberately tried to hurt anyone or criticise their choices, my aim is to support them in making those choices where I can. I type far too many posts a day and my hit rate of accidental offence is still quite low,I think.

If there is anything people see that makes them think ouch even though they know its not meant to please let me know. There are some things I won't change- I'll never tell a struggling Mum who wants to BF to 'just FF' because I think when baby is healthy and thriving most things can be salvedged (sp) and I think when Mum is happy or wants to BF then it's got to be supported, but above that I am willing to be told what needs changing for the future.

Bubbaluv - although as I say I never tell a mother to ignore what her HCP is saying, this does not mean I think HCPs are generally good at supporting bf or even knowing about it. In general, their bf knowledge and support are pretty poor.

This is not a bit controversial.

It is acknowledged in policy documents, research, and HCP professional organisations that one of the major ways we could improve bf stats in the UK is with better training and knowledge among HCPs.

It is true that HCPs 'regularly' give outdated and ill-informed advice on bf!

So I am glad mumsnet has a culture of encouraging parents to question HCP advice, (not just on bf but on other issues, too). It's part of being a grown-up site for grown-ups!

questioning is good

my ds4 was prescribed meds unsuiitable for him by a gp today, pharmacists questioning saved him the associated risk

My BIL questioned the all clear he got for Crohns severaltimes, finally they agreed to him having test redone- he had crohns. They got him before his colon burst just but sadly toolate to repair it- he'll need a
bag in the next year (he's 31)

we should learn to question and to seek references for material, because that acknowledges the great practice as well as the poor

I agree - questioning is essential - my 20mo niece started to get ill one November, my sis took her to doc, went to hospital, she had sickness and loss of balance so they diagnosed tonsilitis (WTF? Her throat wasn't sore, her tonsils weren't inflamed) OR teething probs.

She didn't get much better. She got worse, balance-wise, and she had a couple of fits. My sis questioned the GP who didn't really believe in the fits but said they were probably febrile convulsions (neglecting to mention that a fever should be present for febrile convulsions)

By Christmas Day she couldn't walk (no balance, feet flexed semi-permanently) and was sick but then could eat straight after. And she had a fit while doing Row row row your boat.

Eventually, a couple of weeks later (and after a few futile trips to the GP) she went to a Paed A&E unit where she was diagnosed with a brain tumour that was causing massive intra-cerebral pressure - much longer undiagnosed and she could have had real problems - as it was, they kept her in and put a drain (shunt) in the next day - the pressure release shot fluid all the way across theatre, apparently. 2 days later she had the golfball sized tumour removed and she is now ok.

Sometimes HCPs really don't know best and you have to keep asking/pushing to find the truth.