for fucks sake leave breastfeeders alone

[ohmeohmy]

aaargh, news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7867686.stm twunts.

I never fail to be shocked and appalled by the number of idiotic posts on these threads by the militant breastfeeders urging people with starving and malnourished infants to ignore warnings from health visitors and doctors who 'know nothing about breastfed babies.'

Hopefully this will come as a wake-up call.

you should say something, bobbysmum.

It's not just about how many wet nappies, it's about how wet they are.

I was one of those mums who believed so fervently in breastfeeding that I refused to believe that my baby was in fact getting malnourished- despite the HVs repeatedly raising concerns about her weight. I kept assuring the midwives that the nappies were wet; I had no idea how wet is wet. I'd read all the books, I had oodles of milk and dd was latched on correctly: how could anything possibly have been wrong?

What was wrong was that dd was actually too weak to suckle: in spite of my having had extensive latching-on instruction in hospital and further instruction at home by midwife and healt visitors. I was doing everything correctly, but even the best latching on in the world doesn't help if the baby isn't sucking.

We ended up in hospital and it was a long hard road to turning dd round, through syringe feeding and an exhausting programme of expressing and discarding and breastfeeding and expressing.

11 years later I found out that the reason was probably hypotonia, caused by dd's genetic condition.

But the warning signs were there and I was told. The hospital staff and the health visitors have nothing to blame themselves for. I have.

Because I had convinced myself that if you choose the best way and do it correctly nothing can go wrong. Like heck it can't!

If I had read an article like this it might have made all the difference. I had read nothing that suggested that a breastfed baby could end up malnourished. So when it happened I took too long to believe it.

Look, there are a lot of self-proclaimed 'experts' on these boards, that's all I'm saying. And there are also a lot of mothers who are desperate to believe the rubblish they are peddling.

I mean, someone, please tell me what medical qualification you have to have to be a 'breast-feeding counsellor'?

the how wet is wet question is a good one. with dd1 i thought they were wet, but they weren't really. but how was i to know?

answer: for a midwife or hv to say the magic words 'parcel it up and drop it to the floor and there should be a substantial thud'.

that's what someone told me with dd2, it made perfect sense.

i found neonatologists (with one exception) to be tremendous formula-pushers, i'm sure it comes from seeing these readmissions. some sense of perspective is required on both sides.

with the NCT, it's about 7 years of training i think, bobbysmum. is that you clamped, then, or wot?

bringonthetrumpets on Tue 17-Feb-09 10:43:57
"oh ffs! now people are going to be swayed off of bf because of some stupid journalist. dehydrated babies are not a result of breastmilk, they are like that because they are not latching on properly enough to get milk."

I had a midwife sitting with me to help me latch on every time during my 4 days in hospital and a health visitor doing the same once a day at home. Dd waqs beautifully latched on and still ended up malnourished because it is not true that every single baby in the world is able to feed enough if latched on properly. The vast majority- yes. Every single one- no.

Aitch- the thud is a perfect answer! If I had only known about the thud...

As I mentioned earlier, my hospital was very aware of this condition. All new mums on post-natal ward were given a chart that they have to note down every feed (eg bf or ff, how long, how many mls etc) and every wet/dirty nappy. If dirty, the colour of the poo had to be graded. My mw closely monitored my charts to make sure DD had enough wet nappies and her poo was changing in colour.

Even though I went through hell (memories of constant crying and blowing of nose on bibs No tissues) as I found first few days awful and I couldn't bf DD - I do appreciate that at least the mw were red-hot over getting milk into her and making sure her nappies were OK.

Once again the differences in PCT around the UK is gob-smacking.

lol, it is, isn't it? i so wish someone had told me that with dd1. those endless exchanges...'is she wetting her nappies?' 'well, yes' 'how wet' 'eeeeer, wet wet?'

SO stupid to ask a first-time mum. in fact with dd2 i pointed out that i STILL didn't know how wet i was aiming for and fortunately that was the midwife who dropped it on the floor and declared my THUD suitable.

My problems weren't on post-natal ward; it started after we got home.

I've read posts on these boards where 'breast-feeding counsellors' have urged people to ignore the advice of health visitors and doctors.

I think that's dangerous, irresponsible and (if they really do have to go though seven years of training) deeply unethical.

If a baby died because a susceptible mother ignored the advice of her health visitor or doctor on the say-so of the 'breast-feeding counsellor' on the internet, who 'knew more about breastfed babies', would that self-proclaimed 'expert' not be culpable?

mine too, cory.

can you identify the 'self-proclaimed experts', bobbysmum? so we know who you're accusing?

Too many to mention. Though, I don't know how many have the seven years of training, of course ...

no. mention them. what you're saying is pretty serious, you should front up and name names.

Oh, go and read any thread on the breastfeeding forum. You'll almost certainly find a hundred posts urging people to ignore their health visitors.

ffs, bobbysmum, you've just made a serious accusation, either back it up or retract it. cos what i tend to see, when you're talking abotu a small baby, is people urging caution.

There's no way I'm retracting it.

I can't give specific names because I rarely look at who posts what. But I've read countless posts from breast feeding militants (admittedly, they may not all be counsellors) urging people to ignore health visitors. And I only look at these boards occasionally ...

"I never fail to be shocked and appalled by the number of idiotic posts on these threads by the militant breastfeeders urging people with starving and malnourished infants to ignore warnings from health visitors and doctors who 'know nothing about breastfed babies.'"

that's what you said. but you rarely come on here, don't know any of the names etc, and you use words like 'militant'.

ISHOOS.

Not sure if this is the 'done thing' but would be really grateful for any help for a friend who is currently having some of the problems raised in this thread - thread about it here www.mumsnet.com/Talk/breast_and_bottle_feeding/706576-Help-for-friend-please

Sorry if not the done thing to post a link on another thread

OK so bobbysmum may have been quite direct in her comments but I have to say that as a um who ended up with bleeding nipples and expressing blood due to terrible hospital support (I was in for a week so no excuses on not enough time to help), I came on to Mumsnet at a really low time, dh just 1 week old and got very little support for my agonising decision to ff. I have continued to use Mumsnet (dh now 2 years old) but the ferocity of response from pro bfs was shameful.
I am in no way against bf and think it's wonderful when it works for mum and little one but the responses to issues like thsi on here are so militant!

i bet you any money that if you find that thread now you'd see that the responses were less 'militant' and more 'encouraging'. no one can tell you to ff, nor should they tbh. it's completely your decision, that's the hardest thing about it, imo and ime.

I take it you're one of the 'experts' then, Aitch?

You're certainly arrogant enough.