really not sure what to think of this, I mean will the baby live?

[Saint2shoes]

here

RR - really? I wonder if people would be so keen to give birth to babies with very small chances of survival if they were having to pay out of their own pockets? What do you think?

The people who stare are the ones with the problem, thats the point I made earlier. They do lead normal lives in the sense they do what others do, go to college, movies, partying, driving etc. They are not stuck behind closed doors because of what society may think of them.

With regards to getting married, that remains to be seen as with everyone, but, docs have said there is no medical reason why they wont ever have children.

It's very early days yet. I think a decision should be made when they can do a more detailed scan.

At the moment, all we do know is that it's not "perfect", and that's not a good enough reason to terminate, IMO.

Pay what out there own pockets, spicemonster?

Ilovemylovemydog there were conjoined twins born in Ireland in 1989, they were separated in Great Ormond St but only one survived.
If it were me in this position I would keep the babies. I don't think it's true that they would certainly be subjected to a life of pain, who knows, they may have a very full life in front of them.

the twins in America only have one set of reproductive organs, including one vagina. I'm sorry but I find it highly doubtful they will ever fulfil their dream of getting married and having children. Would they marry one person or two?? That is not a joke question - I am serious....

And this child is a little more than 'not perfect' fig - it has ONE body TWO heads

we are very fortunate in this country that we have the nhs though.

In most other countries money would very definitely come into the equasion, be that from personal funds or medical insurance.

The twins in the states are as normal as they can be in the circs. And I am sure that given the choice they wouldn't choose to have been terminated instead of being here now.

For me this isn't about disabled right to life. if someone has a disability then they have no less right to a life than anyone else.

But this doesn't seem to be about that here, it seems to be about this woman's desire to have a baby because she may not ever get the chance again, despite the fact this baby is likely to die (and if there is only one heart then that is likely to be sooner rather than later).

And I am very about the fact she's not even reached twelve weeks yet and already she's sold her story. Makes me view her in a completely different light tbh.

Hmm co-joined twins. There is a bit about this in "Stumbling on Happiness" by Daniel Gilbert. It's very interesting (he's a prof of psych at Harvard). He says that while almost all single people think it would be awful to be a co-joined twin and would opt to separate no matter what the risk, it reality most twins are very happy to stay together. His point being we are very bad at predicting happiness.

Doesn't relate to this poor womans dilemma, but I am a little puzzled why anyone would want a tabloid involved at all. Or I could guess at the reason and it depresses me.

"people are constantly staring at them and taking their picture... how likely are they to be able to have lovers? get married? have babies?"

But there are many people you could say that about and they might be very miffed if you suggested they should have been terminated before birth, just because of that. A lot of people have physical and mental disabilities that mean they get stared at and/or are unlikely to procreate. So what? They might still have a life that they would rather have than not have.

I am absolutely pro-choice by the way, but I think this quality of life argument can get decidedly dodgy.

Why would they be in pain? no suggestion of pain here

There are other adult conjoined twins out there who seem to have happy enough lives. Remember reading about one pair who did have separate boyfriends. Wasn't a particularly in depth article- Cosmo or something - but enough to suggest it might be worth holding back on the judgment.

Agree with wannabe about the NHS.

I have watched the doc on those US twins and they seemed lovely well adjusted young women. Just because our idea of normality and what would make us happy is stretched by them, doesn't mean they aren't happy and won't be able to have full lives, inc a sex life.

Plenty of people do stuff or act in a way that I don't think would make me happy but they aren't all co-joined twins!

Either way in the case of this pregnancy I suspect that it's very early days to decide that she will have to make a decision either way.

I agree wannaBe. The first thing that crossed my mind when I read the link was 'how do the paper know about this unless you chose to tell them'? I loathe this private lives made public thing. And yes I do think the costs of their care should be pertinent. A 1 in 5 chance of survival is pretty low.

These are the twins I was thinking of In their 40's now. Seem to have had a happy enough life to date. Not my place to judge (although obviuosly medically had a good chance of survival sharing a brain rather than body).

Babybaby123 they arent even 12 weeks yet. It's impossible to get an accurate scan at such an early stage, and there is more development to come, so it's impossible to make an informed decision at this stage.

Basically, what they are seeing in the scans right now isnt definitive.

actually I think that it's been suggested precisely because it's so early. The longer this goes on the harder a termination will be - presumably she would have to have a cs at the point most other women have to have an induced termination (isn't that past twelve weeks?)

I certainly don't think that we should judge the quality of life of existing twins who have survived into adulthood. Remember that for them their lives are normal - they've never known any different.

But the sad fact remains that the chances of these particular babies surviving is extremely low - someone said only 4 sets of such twins have survived into adulthood? and so I think it's more a compatible with life rather than a quality of life issue.

I'm puzzled by some of the stuff on this thread:

"another heartbeat might emerge" - err... how? Either there is a second heart, or there isn't. I just checked my 8 week scan pictures, the heart is very visible. If there was another heart, that would be very visible, too.

"their chance at life" - What life? There is one body and two heads. How exactly is this two-headed baby going to live? I'm assuming one of the brains will be in charge of the body. Will they cut off the other head?

"How exactly is this two-headed baby going to live? I'm assuming one of the brains will be in charge of the body. Will they cut off the other head?
"

for that see the links further down the thread about the American twins.

As for how many weeks the scan was taken at - that is up for debat. If they WERE concieved in December, then at the very most she will be 8 weeks pg. She could well be less than that.

I've seen many threads on here from woman who have been very early scans and not seen a heartbeat at the time one would "expect" there to be one (with their dates correct and going on to have healthy babies).

Surely the exact time a heart starts beating is as much of an estimate as when their lungs will be matured and other such things?

I did see a documentery once where there were 2 heads, but, only one of everything else. One of the heads was "dead" for want of a better explanation (sorry if this sounds harsh). The excess head was removed without harm to the baby. Perhaps once all the tests are through, this might be the case for this baby too.

I think I remember that one Magic.

At this early stage I think it's safe to say that no-one knows exactly how much of a "one body" these twins are, the doctors have said that they won't know exactly which organs they share until they've formed more fully.

Just to Wannabe, I used the example of the teenage twins because there was a suggestion that they lived crap lives, which in their case isn't true. Also people have said some horrid things.

As to them only knowing one thing. We all only know that, my point from quoting from the book I did was we aren't qualified to judge others happiness or quality of life, only they can do that. I might have been much happier had I been brought up in the landed gentry or a nomad in mongolia but I'll never know that either!

In general though extrapolating from the very rare cases that survive I agree is probably a mistake since it is unlikely that these babies/fetus (not sure of the age) will make it that far.

It's a difficult one.

I think the fact that this couple have struggled to conceive is (obviously) strongly influencing their decision. And I can understand that. The desire to hold your own child is so strong. The woman has said that she feels this may be her only chance of ever having a baby.

she's 25 though! she suffers from PCOS - it is possible to concieve with PCOS even if it takes longer....

well she's been trying for 7yrs accordingly to the article, so I'd say that's a farily long time