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Original poster

The 'Underclass'. Discuss.

472 replies

MrsSeanBean · 07/12/2008 11:33

I am coining the term the media use to describe people living in similar circumstances to Karen Matthews - never worked, 7 kids, 6 dads, largely feckless and with no apparent aspirations.

Do we have one? Why?

Who or what is responsible?

When did it all go wrong?

What can be done to resolve the situation?

Answers on a postcard please.

OP posts:
policywonk · 07/12/2008 18:53

But at the moment, the 'stuff' we're buying is being produced in terrible conditions by people who are paid almost nothing. There's a reason why 'things' are so cheap.

NattyTurkeyAndEggnog · 07/12/2008 18:54

here here wonk

TheNewsMongersGeansaiNollag · 07/12/2008 18:56

This is something else the underclass is up against Natty. The next rung up on the ladder begrudges them fresh air.

You can 'get out of your situation'. Either you love your husband and he's worth having. For the sake of your relationship, or for what he provides for the family.

abraid · 07/12/2008 18:56

I'm still not sure that opening coal mines and steel works after 20 years of inactivity is the answer to other nations' ills. Our responsibility is to British workers.

I would hate any man in my family to work in a coal mine. Horrid, unhealthy, dangerous work. It would be better to properly train people for other work--which is what we should have done 20 years ago.

Anniek · 07/12/2008 19:03

Not coal mines as such, but building, manufacturing etc. those jobs are either not in the UK any more or even if built here can and have been out sourced to workers from countries with no minimum wage restriction and are therefore more profitable than employing UK workers.

NattyTurkeyAndEggnog · 07/12/2008 19:11

no i cant get out my situation

i have to stay at home with my kids until they leave home cos we cant afford to do anything else.

and when they have all grown up, i will have been out of work 20 years and be unemployable..

when i would actually love to train to be a teacher, but i can cos we dont earn enough to pay for it, or too little to get it paid for us..

so i am worse of then the lower class cos im stuck.. they ARNT!

PeachyBidsYouNadoligLlawen · 07/12/2008 19:19

Natty there are ways of doing it. There must be, becuase I am neithr unmarried nor single, neither am i well off but I graduated last year.

It takes one year of hard slog on an Access; the uni level work after is covered financially quite well i think- 85% of childcare plus dependants grant, loas etc. Lasted me anyhow (and more to the point as a married Mum I actually had more income than my single friend because my dh's income was deeemed so very low so i got help for him too)

TheNewsMongersGeansaiNollag · 07/12/2008 19:21

There is no course that I could gain access to as a single mother on benefits that would lead to being a teacher. No 'leg up' anyway.

If being with your husband just because you love him and you have one salary for your family doesn't make being a sahm worth it, then maybe you should leave him. If you think that life as a single mother on benefits is such a bed of roses. ditch the husband who's been shoring you up financially and only then will the world be your oyster.

NattyTurkeyAndEggnog · 07/12/2008 19:22

thats the problem i cant get on the access course, cos i cant pay for it, neither put both my pre school children in full time childcare.

PeachyBidsYouNadoligLlawen · 07/12/2008 19:22

Have yu looked at the access courses? A specific type of course? Its what I did (I hope the last bot wasnt to me, I presume not as it didnt make sense if it were)

Mercy · 07/12/2008 19:24

Natty, the fact that you are posting on MN is in itself an indicator that you are not worse off than the 'underclass'

You may be hard up, poor, whatever word you choose but you are not semi-literate and living in near poverty.

PeachyBidsYouNadoligLlawen · 07/12/2008 19:25

access course

Its what I did myself, as a leg up into teachinga lthough I am looking at SW atm for logistical reasons (2 asd kids)

I know it might not work right now- but our situation changed suddenly and unexpectedly and it became possible, and it was one of the best years of my life; also I know it says Glasgow but they're available in may places, did mine in Somerset

NattyTurkeyAndEggnog · 07/12/2008 19:25

im not saying that its not "worth" being a SAHM, i am saying that there is no help to get me thru that access year.
and yes there is courses to help single mums be teachers because one of my friends is doing it, and her child is in full time nursery at the college, which is paid for (by the job center i believe)
all i am saying is that if my income is the same as a single mum on income support, why arnt i entitled to childcare grants etc?

NattyTurkeyAndEggnog · 07/12/2008 19:30

yeah i have looked at loads of courses, was going to go in september, but was told there was no childcare money for me, because hubby is not unemployed.
i cant find 600 a month for childcare, ive tried every way i can think of, i dont have it.

Mercy · 07/12/2008 19:31

Hmm, just noticed your post re housing (to Natty)

PeachyBidsYouNadoligLlawen · 07/12/2008 19:33

That college year is a bastard and no mistake- at Uni you don't have to have a unemployed dh, mine earns around 19.5K and I qualified for the full amount (though they take number of kids /rent etc into account); that amount covered 85% of my costs.

The other solution perhaps could be OU?

I do know how you feel a bit, I was in your place and ironically it was my Dh becoming very ill (now well) that changed things; which I wouldnt wish on you but I do wish you luck in getting there, and do try to hold on to your dreams. You really don't know whats around the corner.

PeachyBidsYouNadoligLlawen · 07/12/2008 19:34

Other option Natty- what about Part time when kids at school?

Sorry if I am being annoying [bush] just know how much it helped me to find a solution

nkf · 07/12/2008 19:36

I know of mothers who have had periods of working for little more than they paid out in childcare. They did it because they knew the work would lead to better things and because they thought it was important to work and, after all, there comes a time when you don't need childcare. Sometimes it is about being able to envisage a future.

I still maintain that KM has to be seen as atypical rather than typical. She's just been found guilty of a very rare and very dreadful crime.

squeakypop · 07/12/2008 19:38

Oh dear, let's not blame Thatcher. I was (just) a teenager when the Tories came to power and I vividly remember the years preceeding that.

Every so often now I get flashes of deja vu and it is scary.

I can't wait for labour to get out of power. Only then can we breathe easily.

Litchick · 07/12/2008 19:39

nfk - therein lies the rub.
How do you get people to see themselves as having a future?

nkf · 07/12/2008 19:41

I don't know. If I did I would be swanning around on some government quango telling people what to do. How typical KM is I don't know. The lifestyle described is utterly foreign to me and I mistrust the newspapers portraya of her. After all, she was the heartbroken mother in the papers a while back.

NattyTurkeyAndEggnog · 07/12/2008 19:42

yeah mercy we area also being made homeless this week lol, so all in all feeling very let down by the system!

yes i have decided we will have to wait till kids at school, then if i can find a course to fit, alot of the local access courses are designed to fit in with school times,so its a few hours childcare as opposed to nearly 8 a day.

nkf · 07/12/2008 19:43

And all the family members popping up to have their say and grab a bit of cash. And we're supposed to believe that KM is the only one who is workshy and violent.

squeakypop · 07/12/2008 19:43

I think the news' portrayal of KM was not because they were drawn in but to show that they saw her 'cause' as worthy as the McCann's.

Mercy · 07/12/2008 19:44

Well, I was an adult when the Tories got in, I can also remember the time preceeding them, and even before that!

Not sure what your point is though