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The 'Underclass'. Discuss.

472 replies

MrsSeanBean · 07/12/2008 11:33

I am coining the term the media use to describe people living in similar circumstances to Karen Matthews - never worked, 7 kids, 6 dads, largely feckless and with no apparent aspirations.

Do we have one? Why?

Who or what is responsible?

When did it all go wrong?

What can be done to resolve the situation?

Answers on a postcard please.

OP posts:
nkf · 07/12/2008 19:45

I don't. I think they thought heartbroken mum it was a good story and now they think wicked mum is a still better story.

There was one paper that had a pic of a group of unappetising women drinking lager. One of those underclass world type features. And the picture was so obviously a set up. They were clearly posing. And it was the perfect picture for the feature.

NattyTurkeyAndEggnog · 07/12/2008 19:47

nkf that is a valid point, you do work in order to secure your future when you wont have to pay out for childcare.
however it is very hard to do many years work for sod all money it seems like its never going to end.
plus i know ppl that worked all their lives and never became better off, because they had kids they werent offered the same promotional oppertunites.

NattyTurkeyAndEggnog · 07/12/2008 19:49

squeakypop thats exactly what happened. they wanted to show they 'cared' as much for a underclass child as they did for a better of child

squeakypop · 07/12/2008 19:50

Lots of people work for virtually nothing to invest in the future.

When I did my PGCE, we 'lost' money, in that I wasn't working and we had to pay childcare (and transportation for me to get to my placements). My first couple of years of teaching, my take home pay was something like £100 a month after taking childcare out of it. That's not a lot to be told to eff-off a couple of times a week.

Anniek · 07/12/2008 19:50

SqueakyPop

Reality politicians will always have an influence on our economy, and Thatcher did build a culture of business making as much profit as possible, and no regard for the longer term picture, I'm not saying labour are the best, I'm just quoting the facts of history.

squeakypop · 07/12/2008 19:52

I wish we had Thatcher now.

Mercy · 07/12/2008 20:14

good grief, why????????

squeakypop · 07/12/2008 20:15

Donald Duck would be better than Gordon.

phraedd · 07/12/2008 20:17

natty ..... can't you work eveings and/or weekends?

I work nights and my DH works days.

It is hard work as we have 3 children but i do get some sleep during the day when the children are at school.

My hubby and i work very hard for what we have but still can't afford holidays! My older sister (on benefits) can. She hasn't worked since having her first child at 18 because she has now 5 children (3 different dads) and gets a lot in benefits.

Something isn't fair there

Mercy · 07/12/2008 20:22

But why Thatcher?

btw did some of you read 3littlefrogs' post(amongst others)?

beanieb · 07/12/2008 20:24

People use 'underclass' because there's no such thing as 'working class' these days.

You just have middle class and then people trapped in the benefits system, either through choice or lack of choice If you see what I mean.

squeakypop · 07/12/2008 20:24

The Resolute Approach

NattyTurkeyAndEggnog · 07/12/2008 20:24

thats the point i was failing to make.
seems unfair i cant go on holidays either
unfortunatly my husband works all hours, and not regular neither.
otherwise id do an evening class, i have GCSES so i can do a levels to get into uni, but until DH works set hours thats not possible.

i did go back to work after having my son, had to cos of money, when hewas 4 months old, and the childminders hours NEVER fitted my working hours that week, there was always at leasst one shift a week we had no one to take him.

Mercy · 07/12/2008 20:30

To sort of (mis)quote Thatcher, you sound like moaning minnies.

southeastastra · 07/12/2008 20:34

it's evolution innit

fifitot · 07/12/2008 20:45

Sorry for offering an historical analysis!

However - the past IS important, it is because of what has gone on in the past that we are in the situation we are in and if you can't see how the monetarist policies of the 1980s created mass unemployment, then I am not sure what planet you are on!

Also - it probably is ridiculous to think we could have a manufacturing base NOW, given that it was systematically destroyed 20 years ago. However we did build ships, cars, mine coal and MAKE things in this country. The fact all that went had a massive impact on our population and it would be naive to think otherwise.

This is how we have 2nd and 3rd generations of people who have only ever been on benefits.

TheNewsMongersGeansaiNollag · 07/12/2008 20:50

natty, I can't afford holidays either. I'm not blaming any other sector of society though.

You are so much better than 'the underclass' because your children will have the benefit of two parents (something mine don't have) and the regular, stable, normal home life.

You are feeling sorry for yourself and feeling trapped, and I can identify with that, but it is nasty to begrudge people on benefits who really are a lot worse off their opportunities. You do have less need of those opportunities because you have a husband or a partner and you're a team providing income/care for your children.

If you genuinely believed that on balance you'd be better off without your husband and without your income, then you could leave him.

I'm glad to read that peachy got support for her course. I'm glad the system is not so black and white as to miss women with partners who are extremely badly off. Especially women who aren't married but have a partner, because they have no protection wehn relationship breaks down.

I can tell you that it will not be easy for me to do this course next September. And I am somebody who comes from a background where it is anathema to sit on your arse and receive benefits, so I kind of have to have a 'plan' for the future!!! Even if it's not really financially viable. For somebody with no employed relatives or friends it would be the opposite. It would be seen as totally bonkers to do some course that would be a nightmare to arrange, take a year, cost loads in childcare, and STILL mightn't lead to a job if the employer didn't like your hoop earrings and your sovereign rings.

Quattrocento · 07/12/2008 20:54

I'm not very comfortable with the term "underclass". It sounds as though a stratum of our society is so alienated that they cannot ever rejoin. Untouchables if you will.

The reality of our society is that there are many ways out from under. Education is the traditional route, but there are also many other ways.

If there is such a thing as an underclass then I agree with Cat's definition - "The underclass have an expectation of entitlement without responsibility."

southeastastra · 07/12/2008 20:58

i think it is a very small minority of the country but big in the news lately so we can all bay at them

aSpacePunkcametravelling · 07/12/2008 20:59

it was margaret thatcher that created the "up yours" generation.

dingdongmerrilyonpie · 07/12/2008 21:00

We know the rot set in with Thatcher.

The question is, what can do now to help.

southeastastra · 07/12/2008 21:02

are you in legion with a superhero community that can sort out the country dingdong!

TheNewsMongersGeansaiNollag · 07/12/2008 21:02

I think that is the case though! They are so alienated that they can't 'rejoin' society in a way that gives them respect. Ours or their own.

They could work for minimum wage somewhere, in a burger joint eg, but if they do have 4 children then that would be putting a principal above their family's wellbeing.

I know how difficult it is to rejoin the working world. I am only faced with mere financial constraints. mere logistics, and it is still extremely hard. I'm trapped in a catch 22 benefits trap. And I was raised to expect to work and earn a reasonably good salary.

I have a lot of empathy for people who weren't raised by parents who valued education. It's no bloody wonder they are alienated from society, and trapped underneath civilised respectable society.

aSpacePunkcametravelling · 07/12/2008 21:03

will take years to sort this country out dingdong...but i'm hopeful.

Anna8888 · 07/12/2008 21:05

If you think lots of members of the underclass "could work in a burger joint", think again.

There are plenty of members of UK and French society who could never, ever do a customer facing service job - they are just too uneducated to understand what to do.