Baby P

[GeraldineMumsnet]

Hi, to make it easier for people who are finding this subject very distressing, we're going to keep all Baby P posts in one thread. If you'd like to discuss this subject, then here is the thread to do so. We'll go on the other threads and link to this one. Thanks very much.

edam, I've said it a few times before but there really does need to be a Public Inquiry (after the re-done Serious Case Review), because the warning signs in this case were so clear and so strong, that for social workers not to take these children into care and for the lawyers to judge that there was insufficient evidence to start care proceedings, there was something very, very wrong and it could happen again. Not just the other children known to be abused in that house, but a convicted animal abuser living there when the RSPCA and NSPCC have in theory been working together for years.

Interesting piece in the Guardian about how the emotional impact of social workers dealing with potential abusers to assess risk and spot abuse can lead to paralysis on the social worker's part: I have seen close up how social workers can be seized by paralysis

Thanks, Blueshoes, very thought-provoking.

Skydancer - thanks for that meditation technique

and that link blueshoes...maybe SWs are not the best placed to be visiting families and making such decisions?

Possibly other professionals, like the police and nurses, should be directly making visits?

At the risk of offending anyone on here, most SWs and Health Visitors I have known have been middle class people with degrees who have joined the profession for very worthy reasons after studying (who the Sun dub "do gooders")

Shoesmith described Baby P's "mother" as "having poor parenting skills", whereas the police, rather more plainly, described her as a "lazy slob"

Nurses and police are often from working class BME backgrounds, less likely to have studied the "theory" for years at Uni and thus less likey to have the wool pulled over their eyes IMO. More likely to use common sense/instinct?

Also their main professionals concerns are: is thare an illness/injury/or has the law been broken i.e. they both make decisions based on evidence - rather than the rather woolly objectives of "supporting the family", "supporting Mum" etc

The police commented (at the time) that they thought SWs were focussing far too much on "supporting Mum" rather than protecting the very vulnerable child who clearly had injuries - pehaps this is why the monster Mum found it so easy to decieve the SW's - they were focussed on her?

Just a thought really

The police commented that

Those are very interesting thoughts, griselda.I do think that in the case of families who have previously shown themselves to be intimidating, SWs should not visit singly, but ideally with another colleague or even better police. But I can the cost and resourcing issues. Damn, this whole area just has to be better funded and resourced.

I agree that there should be "spot visits" from outside the social work team dealing with the family. A job for PCSOs or similar. Someone to just go in unannounced, concentrate solely on the child and deal with what they find. Likewise regular but randum full medical checks, possibly including chest x-rays (a lot of abused babies/young children seem to have long standing rib fractures)for all pre-school children on the at risk register.

Blueshoes, I thought the article was very interesting and so sad, the idea that babies freeze and go into a trance like state because they can neither flee nor turn to anyone for comfort.

Ed Balls made a rather pointless comment in the Shannon Matthews case that "finances and court fees should never be an impediment to protecting children". Yeah right, I'm sure when court fees went up from £500 to £5,000 in May this year it didn't have any bearing on care proceedings...

Lady totally agree with yor point about the finances

Budgetary considerations will always impact on decisions unless people are told that budgetary constraint should not be part of the decisions made..

at smal children with rib fractures

I had a cracked rib once and I recall how much agony I was in - and I was able to rest

... I feel that friends and family should be able to help/comment on/feel obliged to look out for children's welfare,

we should try to avoid a situation where parents are trying to hide children's injuries and poor conditions - instead to always offer alternatives for those in difficult situations,
do they need some kind of relief from childcare, do they need somewhere to take the kids for a break,

When a health visitor comes to the home it feels very invasive, and most people would say exactly what they think they want to hear, i know i do re; toothbrushing which my toddler actually refuses to do... unless they think something can actually be done to help out.

The most important issue is the child's health, if a child is actually unwanted, wouldn't parents take advantage of offers of help, and so eventually adoption or fostering could be offered to parents like the above where social services already KNOW there is a threat?

Basically there should be every option available to these parents, who have harmed any of their children, to put their child in a more healthy environment.
If they are a 'good' parent, they'll be hugely offended and take steps to improve their parenting?
Does this make sense?

Saw 3 separate child abuse stories in the news over Christmas. 2 toddlers seemingly killed at the hands of parents, one with multiple injuries. Another of 3 kids home alone on christmas eve, under 10. No presents and in a filthy house. Police staff clubbed together to get them some stuff.

Hard to bear. Most kids enjoying christmas with their families, some in unbearable situations. Breaks your heart.

Yes, it's a very sad counter balance to the johnhemming thread. Children are being badly let down at both ends of the spectrum.

Hello I am one of the many mothers who was deeply affected by Baby P's story. Before Baby P, I had my head firmly buried in the sand as far as child abuse and neglect was concerned and now I think about it often and all those children who may still be suffering. I was so appalled by Baby P's story, I created various petitions: make regular baby health checks compulsory for the very young to help reveal any cases of abuse petitions.number10.gov.uk/babyplaw3/ make it compulsory for Social Workers to physically examine Children at Risk at every visit - I don't understand why they don't already do this automatically! petitions.number10.gov.uk/babyplaw2/ Improvements to Social Services to help detect signs of abuse earlier www.gopetition.com/petitions/baby-p.html Please take a moment to sign any that you agree with and forward onto friends and family. I am also now admin on the Facebook group "Baby P...We want Justice" which currently has 130,000 members. Our main goals are to 1) to ensure that urgent improvements are made to child protection 2) to ensure that abusers responsible for child abuse or child neglect get significantly tougher prison sentences & 3) to offer people information on different ways they can help if they are so inclined! We have a busy discussion board and regularly provide template emails & letters to send to your MP and government. If you are interested, please do consider becoming a member at www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=44090711755 Thank you. Dee

Thank you for posting this Dee. I don't have any spare time for Facebook, but I support all the things you have mentioned, particularly after reading about the horrors of baby farming in the Victorian age recently and understanding how long standing child abuse is and the effort it took to introduce child welfare legislation into this country. Still needed sadly.

I see there are specialist investigation teams now going into Birmingham social services as well as a number of others. Hopefully this heralds a thorough modernisation of the processes and the way people work in these organisations.

The thing is- you cannot compare 8 child deaths in 3 years in an authority the size of Birmingham, with say 3 deaths over same period in other authorities- it is a ridiculous comparison. Birmingham has 250000 children under it's authority- how many does somewhere like Newham or Haringey have?

Thanks 1quokka - will look those up on FB

Advice and support needed please:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/charities_noticeboard/690961-advice-needed-for-sponsored-event

griselda, I've haven't done a sponsored event for ages to my shame so can't offer you any tips, but would be happy to sponsor you if you do go ahead with your swim (and no I wouldn't need to actually come along and see you do it!). Well done for keeping children at risk in public awareness.

Thanks LadyArden - Many thanks! will note your MN name down and pursue you nearer the time . Am planning for 17 March as it is St Patrick's Day and Baby P was of Irish descent (like me ) so I would like to think of St Patrick watching over the little lad in Heaven

Am relaxed about doing the swim an asking people to support me but slightly apprehensive about setting up pages etc on internet sites - just 'cos I am so useless at technology. Will have to get my DS1 to assist with the techy side of it

No problem, griselda. Will probably have name changed by then but I expect MNHQ could track me down or we could CAT or something (I'm not much into tech things either). I may well do something similar myself, it's a lovely idea.

LadyArden will try and set up the donations page later today so I can post a link xx

ladyArden, here is the link to my sponsorship page: nspcc.tributefunds.com/fund/St+Patrick's+Day+swim+for+Baby+P/showFund/

xx

griselda, have just made my donation. You're doing a good thing, hope it all goes well on the day.

x

Lady thanks you for your very generous donation. Bless you xxx