Baby P

[GeraldineMumsnet]

Hi, to make it easier for people who are finding this subject very distressing, we're going to keep all Baby P posts in one thread. If you'd like to discuss this subject, then here is the thread to do so. We'll go on the other threads and link to this one. Thanks very much.

The only thing that is helping me through all of this is my conviction that Baby P is now at peace and no longer suffering at the hands of pure evil.
I am also sure that ALL the people involved in his death will get their comeuppance - whether it's in this life, or later on.

Just read about being spiritual on here and i can honestly say that for the first time in years, that when i heard about this child in full(i did hear something last yr but not in detail)that i actually got down on my knees and said a little prayer for him.

I think the "good" report shows what happens when too many targets are issued, and these become the basis of assessments of quality.

I work in adult services, and management focus on targets being met, rather than quality of work. So they prefer to see a shite assessment done in 48hrs than a detailed one in 72 .

I think these services DO need to be inspected, but the current targets are counter productive, and more qualitative file audits and user interviews ahould be taking place.

Perkins, what you say has been echoed in the failings highlighted by the inspectors in yesterday's report on the case:

Most damning part is:

"The Inspectors also highlight a failure to talk directly to children at risk; and where children were not seen alone, it worries me greatly that the Inspectors find little evidence of management follow-up to ensure that children suspected of being abused were properly heard and able to speak up without fear."

So the social workers don't talk directly to the children, eh? - probably not as relevant in Baby P's case as his speech would be limited - but f... me, if social workers don't talk to children at risk in a safe environment as a matter of procedure, are they really interested in protecting these vulnerable children, or just in meeting performance targets?

TBH I was wondering if they had talked to any of the other children in the house (including the older girl, who was also on the 'at risk' register.

Its depressing to discover they didn't - and don't as a matter of routine.

Surely if one child is at risk it is a family matter, and social services should be talking to whole family - including any other children.

Jellypop I think SS are being attacked in the press as staff from other agencies (3 |GPs, paediatricians and the police plus many lay people, e.g. child minder, father and grand mother) recommended that the Baby not go back to his mother and a senior SS officer overturned a junior officer's recommendaton that he should be fostered. Thus returning him home to be tortured by a sadist.

Sharon Shoesmith's response in her BBC interview a couple of weeks ago would have won an award for "Bad PR relations" if there was such an award - she came across as callous and arse covering (at best).

I suspect that SS has suffered like many public services under New Labour, where a disporortionate amount of staff time is spent completing forms and ticking boxes in order to pass inspections (in this case by Ofsted - who claim that Haringey only got their "good" rating last year because they (allegedly) gave innacurate data to Ofsted).

The emphasis in most public services has become "meeting targets" rather than using good judgement ad getting to know the people you are meant to be supporting.

I work in another area of the public sector and front line staff bemoan the fact that they used to really know their clients and be able to get underneath their problems, knew all their kids and the family problems etc but now - due to the requirement to meet targets - they barely get a chance to talk to the client.

I think a lot of societal problems have worsened since teachers/housing officers/police officers/health workers have less time to sent with clients and spend more time filling in forms and preparing for inspection.

However, there appear to have been massive errors of judgement made by Haringey SS staff here (and the paediarician who didn't spot Baby P's broken ribs and spine)- how could they have seen Baby P so frequently (often 2 times a week ) and been so blind?

Perkin x posts

Fondant - poor Baby P couldn't tell anyone what was happening to him could he - it is trully shocking to think that his sisters may not have been talked to by SWs.

Carmen - I have spent so many hours in our church gazing up at Christ on the crusifix asking "why?" and trying to find some meaning in all of this and my image of Christ just darkens over. Usually I am able acheive some feelig of undersanding by contemplating Christ but in this case I cannot.

I am not particularly sentimental and have read loads of reports of torture in my life(used to be very active in Amnstey) but what those people did to Baby P is just beyond human comprehesion. As someone else said, it must be one of the most horrific crimes ever committed in this country. It makes me ashamed to be human TBH - animals don't torture babies for fun - and female animals instinctively protect their young

Sorry to go on

It is beyond comprehension.

Stop It griselda i will start filling up again.
It truly is one of the worst things ive ever read/heard about and truly beyond comprehensiion

some sobering thoughts here

sfxmum, thank you for that link.

My heart weeps for the children that social services and ultimately society at large (in the people they elect who decide where the treasury funds go) fails.

We have to shine a spotlight on the sorry state of our underesourced and underfunded social services. I would support more funding for social services. But if that is the responsibility of individual councils, I don't see how things are improve except in a patchy and disjointed way, ultimately to fall off the public radar and back into despair.

The current review that is underway is long overdue. But I hope this carries further than Victoria Climbie.

I do agree Griselda. Often frontline workers opinions and judgements are over ruled for all sorts of reasons including financial.

I remember working as a social worker in the HIV/AIDS field and being told to cut peoples care packages and services as they were regarded as too expensive. These were people who were dying for goodness sake!. In the end I left as it was impossible to help my clients retain their dignity at such a difficult time. In my experience opportunities for frontline workers to influence how a service is managed are minimal and the attitude is 'if you don't like it, leave'. Things only tend to change when appalling events like this happen.

I suppose I'm trying to say there are all sorts of pressures and complexities. Its not an excuse but the context in which this terrible event happened is so important . Ultimately this little boy was failed by so many and of course they have to be accountable for that.

One of the things that worries me is that, as a result of this, even LESS people will phone SS departments in future - they will just think "what is the point"?

I think most people would think before reporting suspected abuse anyway - what happened to Baby P may make people think it is pointless even reporting suspected abuse (loads of people reported their suspicions that Baby P was being abused and no action was taken). This will mean even more children are put at risk

Sorry to be so negative

Blueshoes thanks for the hug - I wish I could have hugged Baby P

If you feel you need to DO something try this this NSPCC link. Take action - sign up to the Campaign Action Group now.

(Sorry - if this link is already on the thread I haven't read all the posts)

Griselda. This has really got to you, hasn't it.

Bubble I made the mistake of reading a very graphic account of all the things they did to him and I can't get the images out of my head - I really wish I didn't know those things

He looked so much like my DS2 that every time DS2 cries or is scared I think of Baby P and how terrified he must have been. Even tonight when DS2 was enjoying the evening meal I thought of how no one in that household was "allowed" to feed Baby P or go into his room to comfort him and how alone he was

I know he's not the only abused child but what happened to him was so extreme

It just so heartbreaking & I feel impotent

I know I can't change what happened to him

I suspect there is thousands of mothers who feel exactly like this ATM and having a child the same age just constantly reminds me of him

Thanks for the NSPCC link which I've signed up to. I intend asking them how their links with the RSPCA here could have helped in this case, given that the boyfriend had been prosecuted by the RSPCA for animal abuse in the past.

Apparently the social workers didn't notice two adult males living in the same house as this "at risk" child, but if they had informed the police and an RSPCA check had taken place, then maybe someone would finally have realised the daily danger he was in.

Griselda, I sympathise. I think we all have those feelings. Having been very traumatised by a similar story involving a baby girl in Sussex a few years back, I was a bit more prepared this time and have managed to avoid the full details and pictures but even so the basics are hard enough to cope with.

I've tried to divert my own feelings of pain and rage into positive activities such as emailing Ed Balls and Michael Gove, joining the NSPCC etc. I'm also thinking of returning to work eventually as a child protection lawyer, although this http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/letters/article5269320.ece letter in the Times today was a bit depressing as money governs everything in law and social services as well it seems.

try again with the link here

If this helps anyone, it's a very simple meditation from the Tibetan Buddhist tradition. You prepare by taking some time alone and calming and focussing your mind. As you breathe in imagine breathing in the suffering and pain and taking it away from the person you're thinking about. As you breathe out imagine you are sending love, comfort, light etc. to that person (whatever you think that person needs to alleviate their suffering). If at any point you get to feel overwhelmed by the pain you are 'taking in' from the other person, just 'de-focus' from them for a bit, breathe in being gently aware of your own pain/feelings and breathe out being aware of your heart and your love.

I have done this meditation a lot on Baby P and for all abused and suffering children and I have found it has helped so much with my strong feelings since I heard about Baby P. I did a lot of the writing to MPs etc and good on anyone who is still doing this or indeed taking up action to help children (I live in Spain at the moment so cant take part in that), but there's the personal coming to terms with what happened too...

so well put skydancer. I will try that. Thanks.

Griselda. I made sure I didn't read any accounts. Purely because I knew I wouldn't be able to get rid of the images.

It seems that child protection effectiveness depends on the borough the child is in.

We have had to report a child at one of our nurseries to SS and I was impressed with how quickly they responded and how the situation was dealt with. This child was 'known' to SS.

I hope the new 'spot inspections' mean that case files of children at risk will be pulled regularly and at random and, instead of just asking the SWs details, the inspectors will go and see these children for themselves.

perkin and jellypop (and others) are right that the problems with SS go right to the top - through all the layers of management up to central government and ministers. I have no wish to demonise SWs at the front line - although those who have made mistakes should be held accountable - but want those in charge to recognise that the culture and systems actually get in the way of decent SWs doing a good job.

I've long though it is shameful that children in care, for instance, are treated so badly that they are far more likely to end up homeless/in prison/addicted/in prostitution than anyone else. We all, as a society, make crap corporate parents.

We have a special duty to the most vulnerable kids but instead they get the shitty end of the stick. Children in London, for instance, are often dumped in Margate because housing is cheap there. It's a deprived area, an awful long way from London, really cut off from anything and anyone they know.

Looked after children are treated inhumanely, often moved frequently with no notice - first the poor child knows about it is when they come back from school and see the social workers car and are told 'right, you are off'.

I don't know what I can do about it, though.

Oh, and poor little Peter was not the only child in the family being abused. The CPS were considering charging the 'stepfather' with crimes against at least one of his sisters. Makes it even more unbelievable that no-one in authority stepped in to protect them.