Re this recent child abuse case, can we have just *ONE* thread for competitive sadding please?

[solidgoldbrass]

Yes it's awful
Etc.
But we don't need a McCann-esque thread frenzy all saying the same thing.

Please dont treat me like a fool. The original post took the piss mickey out of any emotions at all. Trying to say that we are wasting our time saying how we feel. I just went back onto the bereaved mums thread and everybody on there, especially the newly bereaved are shocked and sad. I dont give a flying shite as to your opinions or anyone elses. As I have said, over and over again until I am sick of my own voice, if someone doesn't want to read a thread or get involved with it in any way DONT CLICK ONTO IT.

I only know one MN in real life. I light a candle in respect for the loss of a virtual friends child and also to think about my two sons.

I will not be silenced this time. I was always afraid of hurting other peoples feelings until I realised that in another few weeks I will be 52 years old. I have lived through hell - and I will not supress my feelings.

Good God! these posts are just foul.

Would not have posted if I had not seen shabster's last message here.

Just sending you a huge virtual hug.

Yes do speak. Even on a thread like this, we are still here to listen and sympathise.

Shabster: I made a clear distinction between what the bereaved do and find comfort from and the tendency of some people to make a huge great deal out of their 'grief' for people they never heard of before and know nothing about in the same way that stupid people used to send, and probably still do send, wreaths etc when fictional characters in soap operas die.
And I suggest you might consider taking your own advice about a thread you consider upsetting.

speak all you want, shabster, it'san open forum. but that means it is open to people who disagree with you. andi will reiterate that it was VIRTUAL candles that the op referred to.

sgb I think the point you may be missing and the reason are you angering people is in my humble opinion this

when someone comes onto the bereaved mummies thread its usually the first time I have heard of them

The fact I dont know them from adam doesnt mean I dont understand thier pain. Having lost my little boy I understand their heartache . will empathise, share my story and offer a helping hand.

So there you have it a bunch of strangers who dont know someone from adam showing greif and empathy for a fellow greiving mummy

is that so wrong??

and on virtual candles.. well if i'm at work on someone's remember day I cant ligth a candle on my desk.. so why not on my pc????

did the mother of this child come onto mn? orhis aunt? or the sw? did anyone actually need support because they knew the child? i don't think so.

i can understand btw that if you have lost a child that anoter child's murder might affect you deeply, so i presume thesefeelings are bringdiacussed at length on thr bereavement posts.

there needn't be such a proliferation, htough. someone's just posted in aibu to say they hope the mother is tortured in prison, ffs.

imo there is a lot of diference in support in someone you know(in rl or on the web) and the mass greiving these incidents seem to bring.
I visit a grave of a boy I knew every year, I am not close freinds with his mum or his family, and now we only talk on the internet. but I knew him and i was so upset when he died. I have been in tears on mn when someones dh died and I well reading about peoples children that have died.
but I have no link at all with children or people who in the news. I care, but I can't greive for everyone.
yet the whole on mn seems to be starting threads about this little lad. you can't go into AIBI without one or chat.
I do think it is about time mn hq did something. we had this the other week with RB/JR

massive, massive difference imo, 2shoes. i've been supported on here too, it means the world andis very real. but all this gubbins is just revolting posturing.

Aitch, you put it so well.

I feel like some people get a kind of perverse enjoyment out of these kind of cases. Total voyuerism and grief-by-proxy.
It is sickening.
Why do the news programmes need to go into detail? Why?

Yes, there is every difference.

I feel it must be very scary for small children to hear the details and the tv news programmes should give a warning before airing gruesome details. Each time it came on the news my DH left the room, but I am glad to see that people do care and really want to do stuff to stop this happening again. People who work or even used to work for social services Child protection often feel like the villain, they are isolated and will not discuss, and even want to describe the things they discover or the people they have to work with. I once saw this saying stuck on a social worker's folder and I think it shows the public how much some individual SW's care. It said something like:

Give us the strength to defend those who cannot defend themselves and the courage to stand in the face of ignorance, prejudice and insanity.

I tust SGB that next time there is a thread about monogamy/sexual health/abortion/fetishes/S&M/religion, you won't participate as you usually do and trot out your trademark "imaginary best friend" "monogamy fascism" shit, you will say "we've had a thread about this" and direct all posters in the direction of the archives.

How do you know because I started a prayer thread on MN about this child that I don't do anything actual and pro-active to help others? You don't.

And I didn't light a "virtual" candle. I lit a candle in my house. Is that OK?

There's only one buckethead on this thread.

I was last on MN in an antenatal club in 2007 and then got too busy and too tired for all the infighting and unpleasantness.

BUT

I came back today - to read, not to post, because I just can't stop thinking about this case and crying about it - this happened to a little child in this country who I never met but it's not grief by proxy - it's the most awful feeling of powerlessness and sorrow - and thought MN might be somewhere to go (because I can't and don't want to talk about it to anyone I know etc.)

And then I find this thread. Solidgoldbrass - you and idiots like you are the reason I've given up on MN.

martincat, there are PLENTY of threads for you to talk about your sorrow and powerlessness... what sgb was saying was 'can we have just one of them?'

and you're not powerless, that's the point. there are plenty of children who could do with a hand up in our society, if everyone directed their energy towards children in their own circles then things would actually improve.

dittany, i agree, i think people will want to talk about how this happened, from a number of different perspectives, but there is something quite ghoulish about the appropriation of someone else's grief.

i'm fascinated, for example, to hear from MN social workers as to how this sort of thing can and does happen. a line of faces achieves nothing, though.

Where is SGB???

at work, maybe?

What since 16.35 Thursday afternoon? That was her last post re: 'bucketheads and soiling'

She must be working overtime in a candle factory!!

aitch - i agree that at the start of thread SGB was asking to have only one thread on the subject, as the thread progressed SGB, imo, became quite offensive and agressive.

there are ways of putting ones views across without the need to be quite so insensitive.

OK, I agree sometimes talk about this sort of thing can be mawkish, even ghoulish, though I don't think I've seen this on Mumsnet (though I haven't looked very hard at all) But I totally despise the idea that there is nothing clever/important about having feelings, by which I assume SGB means empathy. Empathy is one of the most important elements in making a civilised society. It is one of the most important elements in making us human. We work every day as parents to try and instill and ecourage empathy in our children. People without empathy are the ones who do things like torture toddlers to death. THere is nothing wrong and everything right about having empathy. Yes, even for people you don't know personally. In my opinion, anyone who doesn't feel some degree of horror and grief and sorrow about this little child is not quite right. I caught a quick glimpse of a picture of his awful clothing in the Times yesterday morning in a cafe, and I had to shut the paper and try very hard not to cry. They reminded me of the piles of children's shoes at Auschwitz. I think that's a normal, human reaction.
The problem with the MM threads surely was that they were so nasty and speculative about the parents. This is a totally different scenario. NO resemblance at all.
I am just horrified by the coverups emerging from the mess in Haringay. THe childminder who was ignored, the whistleblower sacked and silenced. This is a massive scandal, and one that has led to this child's inhuman torture. Why shouldn't we talk about it?

And whose grief have we appropriated, exactly? His mother's? I believe any society that cannot grieve the loss of a child in this appalling circumstances is not worth living in.

imo the appropriation of someone's grief, tragedy tourism and outsadding all happen a lot on mn and are all abhorrent.