Re this recent child abuse case, can we have just *ONE* thread for competitive sadding please?

[solidgoldbrass]

Yes it's awful
Etc.
But we don't need a McCann-esque thread frenzy all saying the same thing.

Have we not moved on from this competitive sadding theme? Why keep referring to it? I thought this debate/thread was evolving.
Tiresome? How original of you! zzzzzzz

Way to go with advancing the debate, Chrysanthemum.

I agree with posters who have pointed out that awareness of the issues around child abuse and protection does not hinge on awareness of the details of the abuse.

You don't need to know the hideous details of each injury if your motivation is to agitate for better procedure.

There's a line in between awareness of an issue and lingering over the specific details of a horrendous attack. One is about being informed and the other verges on entertainment.

I'm hoping not to hear any more harrowing and unnecessary details this week. The front pages of the tabloids were screaming about it when I went to get a paper yesterday am.
I hope this might bring changes to the burocracy/ complications of removing a child from risk. I was shocked to read on this site that a child a week dies at the hands of its parents in the UK. What can individuals do to make the world a better place for vulnerable people? Getting shocked, depressed is inevitable but isn't necessarily going to improve things. It makes you feel powerless. At least government officials are responding to public outrage so far this time. I hope its not just lip service.

Chrsanthamum totally agree we are getting a bit too into it now, although I have to say I don't think it's sick or anything I know it might be weird to some people but I am one of the ones who feels the need to read through each story even when they repulse me because me personally well I want to train to be a social worker and if Im going to do that sadly it will be something I might be seeing never mind reading.

I have read all I want to read I wont be reading anymore, Im focusing my energies on doing something about it now. Well obviously not for Peter but for the thousands who are sufferring in silence whilst we are being whipped into a media frenzy about one tragic case.

I know that sounds quite harsh but it is true IYKWIM.

Oh and meant to say sadly it's 2 children per week who die at the hands of a family member

I worte a letter to my MP about it last night I am sick of them picking out random cases and pointing out the facts even though there was a child killed 2 months ago from basically the same injuries yet where was the frenzy then? Thats been through court and I heard very little about it, there are hundreds maybe thousands of kids out there we need to start doing something to protect the ones who can still be helped...

mamadiva, I am sure you will make a difference. 'Tis a noble thing. I wish you all the best.

On the BBC webpage, I read that the UK has the lowest rate of child death through violence. So on a global scale the situation must be grim. I know that many cases of a similar nature are unnoticed. Also I presume that most people who go into social work want to make a positive difference to the world. Its a tough profession. I'm sure some do v beneficial things. I wonder what can be done to improve the red tape/communication between all agencies to make it more effective. And what can individuals do to make things better?

I imagine that anyone involved with the 3 guilty adults here on any level must feel revulsion. I dont envy workers who have since had to deal with the mother in prison for delivery of the 2nd child etc.It must be difficult. Not that I'm exonerating in any way anyone who hasn't done their job properly.

So hwat if it's all over the place o herew? People are just venting their shock, horror and pure sadness that such barbaric events are allowed to happen in our "modern" world. If you want to talk about make-up or something, go start another thread and don't bother reading these.

ahem. this from the person volunteering to torture the parents in prison... the threads really do need to be bundled.

Get you facts right, Aitch love, before attempting to slate me. I said nothing about wanting to torture paretns in prison. And stop stalking me. You're like an irritating aitch.

sorry, please correct me. where did you want to torture them?

and lol at stalking you. i'm disagreeing with you on two threads. if there was only one thread, there'd be no accusations of stalking, presumably?

I wouldn't dirty my hands on them, frankly.
A little boy has died at the hands of evil thugs. Please don't quarrel any more with me about differences of opinion about how they should be dealt with. It's flippant.

oi aitch get off this thread, you are trying for reasoned debate...
Come be elitist with me

i'm actually not being flippant. i think you are. saying how you'd happily be the one to torture that child's abusers is kneejerk and crass and utterly disrespectful. i bet that boy loved his mum, and i'll bet a dime to a dollar she'd been treated badly in her young life too. doesn't excuse, of course. but as i asked on the other thread, if the little boy hadn't died and had as sometimes happens gone on to abuse kids himself, would you be lining up to torture him in a few years time?

ffs MNHQ can all this shite PLEASE get onto one thread where they can work themselves up into a pointless frenzy without disturbing (and i use that word most advisedly) other posters?

You are talking shite, Aitch. Utter shite. I am being disrespectful to these monsters, yes. That's not all I would be if I had my way, I can tell you.

And let's start a PC do-gooders strand while we're at it, MNHQ!

you really haven't answered my question.

PC do-gooders? You mean, those of us who don't advocate torture, Gateau?

I think you should have a think about what Aitch has said. Had this poor child survived, he would have grown up to believe that parents hurt children, and he may well have gone on to hurt his own kids. His mother was probably hurt by her parents, and grew up to believe that parents hurt children, and so on.

At what point would this poor boy have stopped being 'a poor boy' and started being one of 'these monsters', needing (yet another) good beating to sort him out?
How on earth would violence end this desperate cycle of abuse?

Do you not see the illogic in your position?
It might make you feel better; though I'm appalled to think that might be the case. Suffering is awful. We do not reduce the amount of suffering experienced by one person, by making another suffer in a similar way.

Really, I think that is just basic humanity. Nothing to do with do-gooding, even less to do with PC, if there is such a thing.

There is plenty of evidence to show that state cruelty and harsh punishments (torture, execution) do absolutely fuck all to reduce criminal assaults or crimes of any kind. Yet stupid people persist in believing that state cruelty is the answer. I wonder why.

As I've said on another thread, SGB, I think people want to make these abusers into 'monsters' and 'evil' because they can't cope with the idea that ALL human beings, given the wrong combination of circumstances, can be deeply cruel and violent.

So we make them into 'monsters' because then we don't have to face the difficult questions about human nature that crimes like this raise.

When aspects of our nature as human beings scare us so horribly, we have an urge to purge that from existence.

just my opinion.

ps. i don't agree with it, by the way, that post made it sound like I supported violent/cruel punishment. absolutely not.

Can I just butt in again here,

Gateau I get where you are coming from I really do but there's no point none of us will ever get near them, more's the pity, so like I said try doing something positive you obviously have a lot of pent up frustration about this.

Onebat I really find it disrespectful that this boy died at the age of 17 months and you are pinning him as a child abuser. Im sorry I know you dont mean it in the sense but it pisses me right of when people say things like that. Someone said that to me the other day and then said so at least he wiont get the chance I'll tell you I could have killed her there and then.

I really disagree with comments like that.

I know this may be a excuse fact for some people but as I have said not all people turn out that way and he did not get the chnce to grow up so don't go saying how he wouldv'e turned out no one knows how do you know he wouldnt have gone on to be a great social worker or a Worker for the NSPCC? None of us do!!!

When my brother was born my dd was hounded by SS because he was badly abused and he has never raised a hand to any of us. Maybe they should try looking at the kids who need them rather than stereotyping a group and wasting time/manpower and money!

Hi, we're going to keep all Baby P posts in one thread from now on. If you'd like to discuss this subject, then please can you use this thread Thanks very much.

Dammit and no one replied to my comment above oh well