Re this recent child abuse case, can we have just *ONE* thread for competitive sadding please?

[solidgoldbrass]

Yes it's awful
Etc.
But we don't need a McCann-esque thread frenzy all saying the same thing.

OBM: would you consider a distinction between 'processing' the various horrors of the world and wallowing in them? SOme people deal with the bad things they see/hear of by (for instance) signing up for volunteer work or making a donation to a relevant charity or writing to their MPs, some seem to deal with it by by trying to rub everyone else's noses in THE FULL HORROR of it and going into a full-on screaming vomiting dummy-spitting frenzy when their behaviour is questioned in any way.

Sitting on the fence is a particular talent of mine Ptolemy. I'm quite proud of it (along with my newfound talent for climbing over them, particularly barbed wire ones ).

No seriously, I'm aware I'm sitting on the fence. But I genuinely think there is a place for the expression of horror, and that it can be a necessary thing to help people deal with their own feelings. But I would never ever defend some of the stuff that's being posted about this. To want to know, or to discuss, precise details of how this little boy died is something I just can't comprehend, and I would agree that is "rubbernecking".

Aitch, I missed the bereavement thread bit so can't comment.. but I thought your point about the dead child becoming something to be consumed was very pertinent:

"for me, the poring over and the posturing and emoting etc do treat the wee boy as a kind of 'entertainment', like a horror film."

I wonder, at what point does the 'real' child become translated into a symbolic one? I think what we are observing is this transition itself: the picking over of the terrible details, and their absorption and translation into something that we, as a culture, can do something with (or not.)

We can't actually use a real, dead boy to change anything with; he has to be transformed into some kind of symbolic shorthand (sincere apologies if anyone is offended by the starkness of this analysis). The public and over-emphatic grieving/processing is all to do with this transformation, I think.

SGB yes I personally do find this post more freakish than that. But tend to see them all as part of that process of absorption.

Personally (which is a very different thing) I've been turning off the news every time. However, I remember very vividly when DS was a baby, I was absolutely haunted by the knowledge of details the sexual abuse that has been inflicted on babies; at one stage it was in my mind every time I wiped his baby bottom. So I can completely see how and why these things burn into us so.

OBM I am sort of inclined to offer a manly pat on the shoulder there. Without wishing to be prurient or nosy I think/wonder that you might have been exposed to a lot of horrors more than many people to feel like that. Mind you (and going wildly offtopic but perhaps not that much) when my DS was a baby I and all the family took endless photos of him doing everything and anything and just being (My PFB, family's first and possibly only grandchild) and someone suggested that it was a Bad Thing to take photographs of babies in the bath because it might make people think you're a paedo...

This is an extremely distresing case and I can see why people are horrified but also can totally see the OP viewpoint.I do not work with children (I couldn't do it) but have nothing but respect for those who do.In this case there was obviously gross systemic failure,which DOES require serious investigation.DD has been treated by paed services (not at risk I hasten to add) and I have nothing but total praise for the "Joined up care" we have received from mdt.I think SW like all those in health/social care jobs have very difficult circumstances to work in.We do not yet know full details of this sad case but obviously ther was some systemic fault somewherercoupled with parental/carer deception.It is shortsighted to tar all SW with same brush.Of course it is horrific.But I agree with OP in her sentiments.Have seen fair share of shitey stuff in life,but still agree.

cod was liked to wind people up.sometimes just for the hell of it.no saint

Shabster: You seem to have interpreted my disdain for general ghoulish slobbering as an attack on the bereavement topic, which it was not. WHatever issues you may have had with Cod are between you and her and no problem of mine.

Fucking hellfire, I don't believe this thread.

Way to go Shabster, Mabana et al. I can't add anything to what you've said so I will take my common as fuck self to bed. If I don't sleep I promise you I won't be asking for a medal.

'Competitive sadding' - Bollocks.

"....and as for your thoughts that Cod is no longer here to defend herself and thats why I am bringing her into the conversation. I think that is called Karma.....what goes around comes around."

Very immature way of looking at it I think.
Karma? I think not.

I have no idea what went on between you and Cod but think it's very bad form to post about somebody when you know they are not around to engage in the conversation.
Pointless and out of order if you think about it.

This is the internet people- why the need for all this conflict?

And please, not in that little boy's name what good is this likely to do?

I agree with SGB. It really isn't necessary. Who isn't shocked, saddened and angered by this case. It doesn't need 9 different threads.

I would be interested in a discussion about whether people feel that SS have the right goals. They have to balance child protection with not splitting up families. At the moment it seems, from the outside, that the emphasis has shifted too far towards keeping the child in the family home and often having children placed in and out of foster care several times rather than aiming for adoptions.

Do you remember in the eighties when social work took children away wrongly and too quickly (Orkney and Cleveland)? There was a massive public outcry. I don't think they can win. Also, combustible, I don't think there are enough people wanting to adopt, older children anyway. I personally wouldn't do child protection social work unless you paid me a damn sight more than what they get paid. We all need to pay higher council tax to get enough people into the job and give them the resources they need to do it. Can't see that being too popular though. What will no doubt happen here is the politicians who have no real understanding of the issues will go 'oh shit, we better be seen to be doing something and quickly'. They will spend money changing things in a pointless manner so they can say 'see what we've done'. But it will still be an under funded area of our society that no-one really thinks about until something like this happens. I have depressed myself now.

surely if someone is making personal attacks, you report the posts.

People in glass houses blah blab blah, springs to mind

The only thread I have read about Baby P is this one, the reason being that when a story like this is in the news some people like to discuss and pour over it in every detail.

I don't like this behaviour and find it rather invasive (for Baby P) and macabre. However I accept and understand that there will be people in rl and on internet forums who do.

I also do not agree in censorship, so if people want to dicuss matters (over more than one thread!) that I don't want to see/hear about, then I do not read the threads.

As simple as.

shabster, the way that you are taking what i'm saying personally when i've said a number of times that i'm not talking about you and your thread... it's starting to appear masochistic tbh.

you'd not be happy, i take it, for me to start a thread about how you and your mates are bullying me by slagging me off behind my back? look to your own behaviour, perhaps... what was it... something about not casting the first stone?

again onebat, very interesting. i do so like your posts, particularly when you are disagreeing with me.

"slagging off aitch and her mob is pretty unpleasant". You're kidding right?
Some of the language used by aitch on this thread has been unbelievably unplesant - "ghoulish", "sicko" and "morons" are just some of the personal abuse she's directed at people she doesn't agree with. And no, it might not be classed as bullying (though some would disagree), but it certainly needs to be challenged.

Personal attacks.......LMFAO

misseyhissey, Bullying, I concur.

see what i mean about people taking things personally? was i talking about shabster? nope, in fact i made that explicit in my first post i think. some of the people on here have posted in a moronic fashion, however.