Geogina Baillies sell out to the sun

[ssummers]

www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article1872523.ece

Doesnt this sort of stink of hypercritism? when she said I wont comment until I speak to my 'agent' - was what she meant - I could make some money out of this - I know if every time I speak I have The Sun logo above my head I will bask in the glory?

Isnt talking about how rubbish RB is in bed stooping to the very level that we are accusing RB of? Will RBs granfather not have to read this article and will they not be upset? Sachs has been very dignified about the whole inccident though it has to be said.

OneBat

IGAH, you are very modest but isn't it the other way round? If he says something that implies a disgust of female nature, then you might consider that it was a misogynist statement. (You don't idly assume that someone is a misogynist and then read into what they say and do for supporting evidence.)

Anyway, it's not a black and white thing. Just because he, and JR took part in this stupid prank, and despite the evidence from some of the kiss-and-tell stories, it doesn't mean that he is a misogynist, completely a misogynist and nothing but a misogynist.

It doesn't necessarily say anthing about him but we will draw our own conclusions as we do on every other matter (and as so many people are doing about GB!). But regardless of that, they shouldn't have broadcast that 'prank' which was offensive to many women and AS and GB and lots of other people, it seems.

As a freind of mine pointed out:

"If 'these things really upset her grandad', how's he going to feel about her telling 3 million people that Brand imitated 'Manuel' (her own grandad, remember) during sex "

You're right that a psychology degree wouldn't help you 'make special meaning' out of RB's words, ivegotaheadache - you'd need to be a psychoanalyst to work in that kind of detail, I think.

I do, though, think that it is possible to broadly analyse the power relations operating within a culture, as they are expressed by particular individuals or circumstances.

jimjams, I'm afraid that you were one of the ones whom I thought was 'sailing close' on the other thread, when you said "if you place a photo of yourself in underwear holding a whip on your myspace account you do kind of suggest you might just be up for a 'good' time. We are in control of the signals we give out."

Does the 'good time' you mention include having the details of your sex life made public? And where does that line fall? Is it to do with amount of make-up/cleavage shown/appetite for sex you display? I like a good time - what makes me different from her? Is it possible to like a good time and not simultaneously consent to public embarrassment?

Truly, your comments sound very much as though you are attempting to downplay what RB and JR have done by referring to other (moral?) choices that GB has made as though they somehow diminish her right not to be publicly humiliated.

I've never actually heard or read of him saying anything that implied to me a hatred of women.
A vague sentence with the word menstrual in it does not imply he's a misogynist, or that he liked her to wash after sex or whatever it was.
But if someone can tell me different, I welcome it!

Like I said if you look hard enough you can interpret almost anything.
And people do look for things they believe to be true.

onebatmother, but you weren't broadly analysing power relations operating within a culture as expressed by RB - you psychoanalysed what he said and came to the conclusion that he was misogynistic.

Fine, that's your personal opinion but it doesn't make it true.
No one actually knows if RB has a hatred of women or just has a lot of sex with a lot of them.
I personally don't think so but I couldn't make the statement that he wasn't, because I don't know.

You're missing the point - it's not a vague sentence. It;s a sentence broadcast to the world about a particular woman, which - because it comes from nowhere - I suspect reflects part of his feelings about women in general.

And in any case, the fact taht a man does not habitually express misogyny or display a hatred of women does not mean that an instance of his behaviour is not misogynist.

Misogyny, by its nature and in order to be effective, is rarely overt and unmistakable.

It works through hints and allusions, and in building threads of language into 'truths' which are connected in the public mind, and in which women are diminished.

IGAH, I haven't got time, right now, to further argue this point (I'll be beack later) but I have looked hard into your post and interpreted it (not you) as rubbish, saying black is grey for the sake of being contrary.)

so - we're agreed. The statement was Mysoginistic but without knowing Brand none of us can possibly comment on if he himself is a mysoginist.

Cool!

you psychoanalysed what he said and came to the conclusion that he was misogynistic.

where did I do that?

I made no comments about other aspects of his personality, or his motivations, or anything other than those words, which I analysed as a general expression of the power relations which already exist in culture.

I said that RB, in choosing to focus on menstruation, was tapping a deep vein of misogyny which sees women's bodies as frightening or disgusting or both.

It is not psychoanalysing another person to make a reasoned judgment about the underlying belief systems which are revealing themselves in their words. It's just analysis, which is the same thing as reason or thinking, and nothing to be afraid of.

For example, it would be perfectly fair to conclude that a person who says, of a black person with whom they'd had sex, 'but she's quite pale-skinned', is a racist.

beanie - true, but we must further consider the fact that those who are not in part misogynist rarely make misogynist statements.

Actually, I'm not trying to be contrary just for the sake of it. Far from it, if I say black is grey than I totally believe it.

What I suspect you mean is that it's rubbish because it disagrees with you.

One bat, that is what you believe which is your right.

However, I on the other hand am inclined to think that the word 'menstrual' was in there because it rhymed with consentual. The fact that it was broadcast to the world doesn't have anything to do with how it was said at the time.
And a lot of men don't like to have sex while the woman is menstruating it doesn't make them all haters of women. I don't like having sex when I have my period, maybe I'm a misogynist too.

Not sure why you've italliced the word haters btw, as that's what a misogynist is, he hates women.
Anyway like i said you think what you do and I think what I do!

And totally agree with beanie!

I am no fan of The Sun, but can't say I blame GB for wanting to take their money.

Brand and Ross remind me of vile horrible adolescent boys I went to school with 30 years ago .

Ok, your daughter has a brief relationship with a man who is a big lairy, an ex-addict. The man goes on to become quite famous. He gets a radio show, then starts, out of the blue to start boasting about having 'fucked' your daughter on the radio, and making jokes like 'Yeah I met her. I met her brains out!' to sniggering laddish radio presenters. She is appalled, and texts him to ask him to stop, he ignores her and encourages his friends to go on the radio and say things like 'he had her over the couch', and even rings up your dad to tell him about it.
What would you think about the man? Would you think your daughter was 'asking for it'?
If the woman was you, would be be 'asking for it?'.
Why does the woman in this case have a duty to keep quiet and let the man say what he wants?

Onebatmother - this earlier post of yours clearly says that RB is a misogynist. You have analysed his words and came to the following conclusion.

"May I also remind those who refuse to see misogyny at work here, that one of the lines sung into Sach's answering-machine was:

"I had sex with your granddaughter.
But it was consensual and she wasn't menstrual."

For me this is the crux of it, and reveals the misogyny which underlies the whole episode. Brand's fear of/disgust at the menstruating female body indicates his fear of/contempt for women - since for misogynists a woman is her body. It is effectively a public expression of his contempt for Georgina, for being disgustingly female."

But look, I don't care if that's your opinion, you have yours and I have mine. I don't agree with you and you don't agree with me.
I don't need anyone to agree with me !!!

I must go I've spent the whole day having a cyber argument about Russel Brand, and I don't even like him that much.

I think it is so revealing that he thought it was OK to tell a woman's grandfather that the women 'wasn't menstrual' when he had sex with her. WTF?? Does that somehow make it OK?
I read the bit in the Sun today. GB says two things about RB - one that he was a bit disappointing given the amount of practise he had, and secondly that he was obsessively interested in the fact that her grandfather was Andrew Sachs. She then says she asked him to stop making jokes and telling people on air that they had sex, and that it was painful and embarrassing for her and that he has no respect for the women he has sex with. Some kiss and tell! She did not pose for pictures, other than a portrait shot of her looking sombre.
Max Clifford is a sleazeball, but I tell you, that woman would have had a scrum of journalists on her doorstep and millions of phone calls. I imagine she wanted someone experienced to handle it all for her, and MC offered to do it.

"Not sure why you've italliced the word haters btw, as that's what a misogynist is, he hates women."

sigh. there are degrees of misogyny, as with everything. It is possible to unthinkingly reflect the prejudices of society in general. It's also possible to be a woman-hating psychopath. In between, there are various shades, no?

It wouldn't occur to me, I don't think, to rhyme menstrual with consensual. If it did, I would immediately discount it.

I'd think, "blimey, you are in the process of leaving a message on the answering-machine of the grand-father of someone you've fucked, and in this context, Russell me old mucker, you're going to look fucking weird and/or misogynist if you bring up whether or not she was having her period when you were fucking her."

And furtherfreakingmore, you could say exactley the same thing of his raising the issue of whether the sex was consensual. Fucking weird, and implies the possibility of it's opposite.

I really, really used to fancy Russell Brand, btw, and there are several threads attesting to that fact

"Ok, your daughter has a brief relationship with a man who is a big lairy, an ex-addict. The man goes on to become quite famous. He gets a radio show, then starts, out of the blue to start boasting about having 'fucked' your daughter on the radio, and making jokes like 'Yeah I met her. I met her brains out!' to sniggering laddish radio presenters. She is appalled, and texts him to ask him to stop, he ignores her and encourages his friends to go on the radio and say things like 'he had her over the couch', and even rings up your dad to tell him about it.
What would you think about the man? Would you think your daughter was 'asking for it'?
If the woman was you, would be be 'asking for it?'.
Why does the woman in this case have a duty to keep quiet and let the man say what he wants? "

all this ^ has no bearing on or relation to what actually happened. I thought GB hadn't even heard the broadcast. Did she text him? Were they in a relationship? If they were then was it ever public?

No one is saying she has a 'duty to keep wuiet' who said that. I think maybe she has a responsibility to not cause her grandad anymore upset though.

if these things really upset her grandad, how's he going to feel about her telling 3 million people that Brand imitated 'Manuel' during sex ?

onebat- on the other thread- I meant that if I placed a photo of myself in underwear holding a whip on my Facebook or myspace page (not that I have a myspace page) then I would not be surprised to get lewd comments directed at me. I also used my own dh as a hypothetical example to show that the response to the way we dress holds true for men and women.

I mean no more than that. I don't think someone with her myspace page deserves to be humiliated in public, nor do I think they deserve to be raped or whatever other huge projections people were coming out with on the other thread, but I do think her photos (chosen by herself) projected a certain image. Those images will reflect how others react to her at a personal level. If you dress in that way and make that a very public image then I don't think you should be surprised if men then expect you to behave in a certain way and to be up for a bit of sexual innuendo. Nothing more than that, but you have to expect banter.

The way we dress does say something about us. We all know that. And when you choose an image for a public profile you generally choose something that you feel says something about you. I can't imagine any set of circumstances in which I would put a photo of myself dressed in the way she was on a public profile, because I would imagine that I would get all sorts of unwanted attention. If that has me sailing close to the wind so be it.

I must point out I carried on on the other thread to say that they had gone too far, and should not have involved her grandfather, and that they confused what they might have said to her in person, with what they very inappropriately broadcast.

'I think maybe she has a responsibility to not cause her grandad anymore upset though.

if these things really upset her grandad, how's he going to feel about her telling 3 million people that Brand imitated 'Manuel' during sex ?'

As if people weren't going to find out anyhow once BRAND and ROSS, not Miss Baillie, brought it up?

She was all over the place before she opened her mouth to respond.

And, as her grandfather, I'd reserve my upset for the complete and utter twunts who raked up the whole thing on the show instead of using their brains to come up with something original and imaginative that was actually FUNNY.

She has every right to respond how she pleases, they brought it up.

Brand admitted he hadn't apologised to Miss Baillie as of last night because he was embarrassed to confront her.

As well he should have been.

Too bad he didn't have the balls just to leave it unsaid in teh first place.

She did.

JimJams "...they confused what they might have said to her in person, with what they very inappropriately broadcast."

So it would be okay with you if two BBC professionals suggested breaking into your elderly grandfather's home to molest him while he slept? Or that he might hang himself on hearing lurid details of a fling you had years ago?

These four phonecalls were so obscene they went way beyond what is acceptable even in private, in person, with the victim given a chance to respond. It would still be bullying.

Sorry Upwind but I can't make head nor tail of that post.